Tammy married her daughter off - ELLINgTON Family

[John1935]

Hello Westoe
Have got this far, have 'Keys' anything of interest on these ships please ? only other possible , but for 1867 - 1868     304 T    Barque ' Lady of the lake', which he in fact might have died on, but no trace yet.

With John Tillman’s Master’s certificate, we had hoped to get a follow up of his voyages, , on the Captain’s Registers in the LMA,  after the John & Eleanor had been sold at the end of 1854.
This was not to be, having got the ‘T’ Register, he was not to be found ! Now if as a Master you had a Service Cert ( No exam – if you had already been a Master before 1851)
Then – if you were not still serving in 1869, you would not be on the register, against this if you were still at sea in 1869, all ships back to the date of your Certificate would be entered.

So what happened to John, well by chance we found his Probate Administration, Durham with Executor as Margaret  ( his wife). 2nd Oct 1869, with the fact that he had died in Sulina,
Romania ( on the Danube estuary ) on the 11th Oct 1868.

Only possibility now – search newspapers – there are many entries for ‘Tillmans’ including shipping – first one ‘Nimroud’ Captain Tillman, and his rescue of the passengers and crew of the ‘John Soames’ looked interesting, only to eventually find a blow by blow account of the event, and thanking Capt HENRY Tillman for his aid !! ( collection time – didnt know of HENRY ! )
Back to search – and maybe he took a rest in 1855, as first possible that I can find is :
 
Donna   235 T  Snow - built and registered, 1850 in Newcastle – Owners Hunter & Co.
According to Lloyd's Reg. John was on her from 1856 to and including 1861, and also point out on the 1860 issue that ‘Donna’ had some repairs in 1859.
Voyages that I found in Newspapers were :

Left Troon  5th July 1856 for Beyrout
Left Shields 22nd May 1857 137 chs coals for Cronstadt
From Newcastle for Alicante arr Falmouth 16th Oct 1857 ( with damage - heavy storms)
From Newcastle 3rd July 1858 to Port Mahon (Menorca) ISB chs Coals for Saniter & Co.
From Shields 1st Jan 1859 to Ibrail (west bank of Danube – Romania ).
From Shields 17th June 1859 arrived Beyrout  9th July 1859  Coal.

‘Hebe’  331 T  Barque built S/land 1860 – Reg. Shields  - Owner T.White
Lloyd's have John on ‘Hebe’ from 1861 to 1864.
Voyages that I found in Newspapers were :

Arr Falmouth from Havana for Antwerp 11th July 1861.
Arr. Tyne from Naples Nov 1861.
From the Tyne to Dunkirk March 1862;
From and for Plymouth Loading at Shields 16Nov 1862
From London to Shields, 12th Nov 1863, put into Harwich loss of Anchor & chain, after repairs sailed for Shields the same day.

‘Geraldine’ 361 T Barque 121.1 x 27.9 x 17.4 built & reg S/land 1864 Owner R.Sheraton
John on Lloyds reg as Master 1865 to mid 1866. Voyages that I found in Newspapers were :
Arr Shields 13th May 1865 from Alexandria.
At Constantinople from Ceres 30th May 1865 – 20th June Arr Shields from Ceres.
Arr Falmouth 18th July from Kustondje for Gloster left 24th July 1865.

Best

John

[Westoe]

Hello John,

Some time back I did look up for you. The only hits in Keys for a "J. Tillman" were JOHN & ELEANOR and AID and I copied out those details for you. If you are going to start collecting Henry Tillman, there is one possible; an "H Tillman" is given as master of convict ship LONDON.

There are entries in Keys for DONNA and for HEBE, but neither mention Tillman.
There is no entry for your GERALDINE or for your LADY OF THE LAKE so both must have been registered elsewhere than the Tyne.

There are two lawsuits on file at NA against Thomas White, owner of the barque HEBE re a collision between HEBE and schooner SINGAPORE but that happened 21 September 1865, so I think it is after Captain Tillman's time. (Wouldn't suggest buying it - I have bought one and it was pages and pages and more pages of legalese, first in longhand and then all repeated in typescript and very expensive. Only a couple of pages of any real interest to me.)

Owner R. Sheraton of GERALDINE was Richard Sheraton and her Official Number was 51163.

I think your LADY OF THE LAKE had Official Number 966 and was owned by William Snowball of Sunderland. Newfoundland has crew lists for her for both 1867 and 1868. If he died whilst her master there should be a notation on that crew list, but once again buying it is pricey. The minimum charge is Cdn $40.00 plus the cost of the images (approx GBP 15 plus the images, don't know what it is in francs or euros). Unfortunately, unlike the GRO where you can specify that you want the certificate only if names xyz are on it, Newfoundland will not tell you in advance - you pays yer money and takes yer chances.

Cheers,
Westoe

[Westoe]

,,, there are many entries for ‘Tillmans’ including shipping – first one ‘Nimroud’ Captain Tillman, and his rescue of the passengers and crew of the ‘John Soames’ looked interesting, only to eventually find a blow by blow account of the event, and thanking Capt HENRY Tillman for his aid !! ( collection time – didnt know of HENRY ! )

That Henry Tillman was presented with a telescope by the BoT for the JOSEPH SOMES rescue. I've got his certificate number. Next time I'm at the library, I'll look it up and see where he was born. He appears to be the same Henry Tillman, aged 28, who'd had Register Ticket #5250, who got his 2nd Mate's Certificate 12th January 1849 (under the voluntary scheme) when his present or most recent ship was ELPHINSTONE, 425 tons (which ship he had just commanded on a voyage from Australia). He died 11 March, 1878 in Hackney.

Cheers,
Westoe

[John1935]

cont. - John Tillman from yesterday :
So far so good – but the next hit for John on the Newspapers, is :

‘Lady of the Lake’  - of which I can find no Details in Lloyd's List for 1867, which is when he first appears or1868. All that I know is that she is a Barque of 329 T. O/n 966 owner was William Snowball of Sunderland.

From Shields and Sunderland Gazette :- 9th Aug  1867  Loading in South dock Sunderland for Oran, Dobson & Co.

Same paper :-  Sailed  23rd Aug 1867 for Oran and Odessa – 430 tons gas coals £ 161. Dobson & Co.

Yarmouth Coastguard, ‘Lady of the Lake’ for Oran off Yarmouth 2nd Sept 1867.

Shields Gazette 23rd Dec: ‘Lady of the Lake’ Off Constantinople, from Oran 7th Dec.

Next entry is in ‘Gloucester Journal’ on the 16th May 1868 :

‘Lady of the Lake’ Arrived from Alexandria with 2000 grs of Wheat for J.P.Kimberly.

Knowing that John died on the 11th Oct 1868, we could assume ( I think ), that from unloading in May, until his death in Sulina, he would have had time to sail North, for another load of Coal, for Sulina and that this was his last ship.

Still looking for a tie between Sunderland ‘Tillmans’ and our Devon ones, and have found another John Tillman born in Exmouth who was also on the ‘ Lady Williamson ?? or are they one and the same !
Studying his Master’s cert, he had already been at sea for 26yrs – and now he had to have a piece of paper to prove it!!! How diligently did he fill in the form in the port of Dublin I ask or was officialdom not his cup of tea ( If he was one of our lot, then , that fits) – live in Sunderland? “Yes” born in Sunderland ? “Yes”, etc, etc.

Best

John

[John1935]

Orf on a slightly different track -but info, which might prove useful to someone.

While digging around at L.M.A. I came across  series of three books giving info on  insurances, as given out by  :Royal Sun Alliance Insurance Group - ref :

CLC/B/192/F/001/MS11936/385/598790

On which I found for 1792   An INSURANCE for George Tillman  ( Father in law of TAMMY).

I was pleasantly surprised at the amount of info that could be gained :

He had a dwelling house , with cellar Barn and Stable and 'LINNEYS' adjoining Sowdon ( Near Lympstone Devon) plus Stock and Utensils in Beavis Barn in Lympstone.
All Thatched and  valued at £200.

Note. 'LINNEYS'  was a word used in the South West of England for Lean-to sheds.
Best

John

[Westoe]

Hello John,

That Henry Tillman whom I'd said I would look up was born 1820 in Walworth, Surrey, had Register Ticket #5250, Master Certificate #545, granted London 12 January 1948 (so under voluntary scheme). Ancestry does not have his application so cannot tell you his other ships.

Your John Tillman born 6 January(?) 1811, Sunderland says that he was master of AID of Newcastle 1838 to 1845 doing American and Baltic trade. Did you get those images from NMM?

Cheers,
Westoe

[John1935]

Silas Angas  1787 – 1876. Master Mariner.
Our contact with Silas, is due to Lavinia Tillman ( daughter of George Tillman b.1805 ), who married Silas’s son William in 1867 – at the time William was an Ironmonger’s agent, and living with Father, who had retired from the sea, and had entered the Trinity House cottages  Lower Ground at Deptford, London  on the 10th Aug 1858, taking up residence in No. 10.

Silas at that time was 71yrs old,  had been recommended by Capt Farrer, and had been mainly in the Coal, Baltic and Transport Trades. Ann (nee Sanderson ) his wife was also with Silas. Later they moved into No. 40 Mile End Trinity cottages.

Then when William and Lavinia married, they all moved up North, first to Tyne side, North shields and then to Sunderland, where Silas was living with Ann at 29 Upper Nile Street, until he died on the 15th Jan 1876. By the time Probate was granted on the 30th  Jan 1876 Ann’s address was 19, Derwent street.

At a time before the above events Silas was recorded in the Durham Directory – Sunderland section, and under col. Ship’s Masters & Owners.

 Below is a list of the ships he sailed on ( as taken from his Claim for Master’s Certificate in 1850 at Sunderland :

Doris           275 Ton    reg. S/Land           Apprentice          1805  -  1810    Transport/Baltic
Lapwing     243  “                 “                  Mate                   1811  -  1812    America
Amethyst    212  “                 “                  Master               1812 -   1813     Coal Trade
Adamant     200  “                 “                 Master                1813  -  1827     Transort/Baltic
Ord             247   “                 “                Master               1827 -    1831     Baltic & Coal
Catherine    264   “          N/Castle             Master                1832   April
Hampshire   246   “          London              Master               1832                   Baltic
Orient          164   “           S/Land             Master               1833  -  1844      Coal & Hamburg
Hazelrigg    280   “           Newcastle          Master                  1844  -  1845      America
Charlie Richard 257 T      London             Master                  1845  -  1847      America

Now due to the fact that he was not still at sea in the 1860’s, he would not appear on the Captain’s registers in LMA, so search Newspapers again, result was :

Andrew White. Angas arriving at Newhaven Conn. U.S.A. on 28th May 1848. Followed by:
Exports from Sunderland Andrew White. Angas. Coals for Quebec  7th April 1849. Then :

Oct 26th 1849. The Brig Nicholson. Bell of Hartlepool, for Miramichi, 26 days out, reports that she saw a vessel bearing down, which proved to be the brig Andrew White, Angas of Sunderland from Quebec, in a waterlogged state, and crew completely lamed and exhausted with continual pumping: they put out their boats, but a heavy sea running at the time, the boats sunk alongside After putting their (Nicholson’s) long-boat out they succeeded in rescuing them from their perilous situation in Lat. 49°  38’ N   Long. 18°  10’ W.
In the middle of the North Atlantic ! They were the lucky ones to have been picked up.

After the above have not been able to find other ships maybe for Silas that was enough.

[John1935]

Hello Westoe

Just trying to catch up and arrange, things that I found in London Searches - as above.


Keeping 'Henry .T.' for a rainy day Yes info on AID and J.T. comes of claim for cert of Service, before that he was on the 'Expedition' of Newcastle coasting ( his first voyage as Master).

Best

John

[John1935]

Hello Westoe

Below is info I found on Henry Ellington Jnr ( Lavinia Thomasin Tillman Ellington Wilson's brother! )
Still a bit incomplete ref Suspension of his ticket  & was he still on the 'EUNICE' when nit was abandoned - nothing on Pastscape. Don't know if it helps putting all this lot on, but maybe will be useful for someone as a cross ref on ships sometime?

 Henry as can be seen by his testimonials of service served on 36  Ships just up to the time that he took his Master’s  Ticket.  31 of those ships, (after a four year apprenticeship 1843 - 1847) he was on as an A.B. according to the statement ( however the dittos might have been for speed of writing) and in fact the later ships he was Bosun or Mate. By the time he took his Master’s he had 23 yrs sea time in, and still some to come.

Ships showing on his application for Master’s exam ( where he had served as Mate ) were as follows .
                                 Registered                                           Dates
 2756  Mary                       Sunderland                       3rd Nov 1860  to    3rd Dec 1860

21098 Flying Spray            Hartlepool                      18th Feb 1861  to   25th Oct 1862

18537 Missionary               Sunderland                   17th Dec 1862  to   4th March 1863 

23727 Coldstream                      do.                         10th July 1863  to    20th Oct 1863
                                                                         &       10th Dec 1863  to    24th Feb 1864

24627 John Hullet                London                         7th March 1864 to   26th Oct 1864
                                                                         &        20th Nov   1864   to  25th Jan 1865

Next we have the ships, as taken from the Captain’s Register at LMA.
23508  Dawson  231T.                 S/land  (C) 1865  Baltic,  Coasting & France Portugal Spain

27508  Pride of the Wear  373 T.   do.    (C) 1866 – 67  Med.

12771  Golden Spring  317 T.     Shields (C) 1867 – 68  Med, F.P.S.

24532  Mac Donnell    541T         S/Land (C) 1870  - 72
 
1872  - Barque  Mac Donnel of Sunderland from Shields to Garrucha is ashore on Haisboro Sands, part of crew left the vessel, Master and three men onboard, assistance has been given- Later, ship reported to be full of water, Beachmen are engaged on salving stores, and stripping vessel. Lloyds  mar 12/17Total Wreck  14/21 & 25/12 info received from Yarmouth regarding parts of the vessel washed ashore
Master’s cert suspended for 3 mnth from April 4th 1872

67399  Serantis                  ?                 ?    (C) 1873

23167 William Simpson 396 T.  S/Land   (C) to May 1874  America

 2805  Thirteen  272 T.                    do.      (C) Sept 18th to Nov 21st 1874   Baltic

No entry for 1875

51181 Achilles  655 T.                      do.       (C) Sept 1st  - Nov 28th 1876 2x Trips to Baltic
                                                                       Steam 130hp Owner E.T.Gourley S/Land.

24627 John Hullet 259 T.                  do.      (C) July 10th  - 5th Oct 1877
                                                                       Sail – Snow Owner Jammy Robertson S/Land

62663 Dorcas   NT 467  Gr 723         do.      (C) Dec 14th 1877 – Jan 7th 1878  F.P.S.
                                                                         Iron/Steam 90 sc    189.4 x 27.7 x 15.5

62661 Eunice NT 482  Gr 661            do.      (C)  Aug 1st 1878  - 1881 F.P.S x 2 then Baltic

Ship ‘Eunice’ is marked as abandoned on the 6/12/1882 Was he still in Command ?