Author Topic: Poor Handwriting and in Latin!  (Read 1076 times)

Offline Gadget

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 57,138
    • View Profile
Poor Handwriting and in Latin!
« on: Tuesday 18 June 13 13:21 BST (UK) »
Hello

This is attached to an Obligation of 1727, Lichfield Diocese.  The mixed Latin/English  Obligation document charges Ellen/Elinor Sandland of Wem to undertake an inventory of the possessions, etc., etc.  of William Sandland. With the help of JenB, we've managed most of it.  Thank you Jennifer  :)

However, I've now come upon this other piece which is in nearly the worst handwriting that I've seen for a long time and my O level Latin is very, very rusty!   Would anyone be able to decipher this for me, please. No need to translate  ;D

Thanks ever so.


Gadget
Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

***Restorers - Please do not use my restores without my permission. Thanks***

Offline veeblevort

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,341
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Poor Handwriting and in Latin!
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 18 June 13 16:18 BST (UK) »
Best I can do, sorry Gadget. Perhaps it will be
enough for you to get your own eye in.

Comp(arui)t personal(ite)r Eleona Sandland et allegavit
quondam Iulielmum Sandland nup(er) parochiae Wem
in agro Salop ad quatuor decem dies plene elaps(ae) mortem
obijsse ab intestato Seq fuisse ac e(ss)e viduam relictam
ejusd(em) def(unc)t(i) quare petiit L(itte)ras Ad(ministrac)ionis bonor(um) Iurium et
Creditor(um) ejusd(em) def(unc)t(i) sibi concedi qua_ __ __ __
sub cautione idonea et ______ Iuramenti soliti
eid(em) Eleonae Sandland de___ et commisit
ut _____

vv.

EDITED

Offline Gadget

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 57,138
    • View Profile
Re: Poor Handwriting and in Latin!
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 18 June 13 16:20 BST (UK) »
Thank you ever so much, vv. I'll have a go at making sense of it. It really is awful handwriting and you deserve a prize of some kind  :)


Gadget

PS - warning _ I've got another one on order and it's earlier  :-X
Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

***Restorers - Please do not use my restores without my permission. Thanks***

Offline JenB

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 16,877
    • View Profile
Re: Poor Handwriting and in Latin!
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 18 June 13 16:30 BST (UK) »
Here's my first attempt I haven't compared it with vv's yet so hope it's reasonably similar  ;D

Comp<....> personal<……>r Ellena Sandland et allegavit quendam Gulielmus Sandland nup<..> p[ar]ochiae Wem in agro Salop ad quatuor decem dies plene elap<…..> mortem obijsie ab intestato seq fuisse ac <..ss> viduam <Relictam> eijusd[em] def[unc]t quare petuit L[itter]ras Ad<ministrac>ionis bonor Jurium et Creditor<ium> eijusd[em] def[unc]t sibi concedi quas D<omin>us Surtem sub cautione ideonea et pr<…>tatione Juramenti soliti eid[am] Ellena Sandland decrevit et commissit ut petitur Jura etc

Jurat tam sup veritate <…………..> quam fidele ad<minist>rando coram me quam de <………………> 40 Li
Coram John Carte

Expansions I'm fairly confident about in [ ] brackets, ones I'm unsure of in <....>

Still working on the ......... bits  ;D

Edits in red  ::)
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Gadget

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 57,138
    • View Profile
Re: Poor Handwriting and in Latin!
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 18 June 13 16:33 BST (UK) »
Thank you, Jennifer. You deserve at least 2 prizes as you helped me with the other bits as well!


Gadget
Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

***Restorers - Please do not use my restores without my permission. Thanks***

Offline Bookbox

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,918
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Poor Handwriting and in Latin!
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 18 June 13 18:58 BST (UK) »
Personally I wouldn't struggle too much with the Latin word-endings, because it's a fairly standard administration bond, roughly like this ...

Appeared in person Ellena Sandland and stated that a certain William Sandland late of the parish of Wem in the county of Shropshire died intestate 14 days previously and further stated that she was and is the widow and relict of the deceased and she requested letters of administration of the goods, rights and credits of the deceased to be granted to her, which Master Surtus(?) under an appropriate caution and with the customary oaths did decree and grant to the same Ellena Sandland as she had requested, saving the right etc. etc. ...

Sworn to the truth of the above and to faithfully administer (the estate)
and the value of the goods does not exceed £40
before me Joh(ann)e(m) Carte(?) Sur(rogat)e

====

Actually I don't think the handwriting's that bad. It's the contractions that are the killer, but vv and JenB had them well sorted  :)

Offline Gadget

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 57,138
    • View Profile
Re: Poor Handwriting and in Latin!
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 18 June 13 19:25 BST (UK) »
Thank you Bookbox. However,  you seem to be a bit dismisive of others' work - members of whom I have a high regard.

Note that I said that I did not require a translation:

Quote
No need to translate

Thank you all the same.



Gadget
Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

***Restorers - Please do not use my restores without my permission. Thanks***

Offline Bookbox

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,918
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Poor Handwriting and in Latin!
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 18 June 13 19:33 BST (UK) »
members of whom I have a high regard.
As indeed do I, and I said so at the end of my post. There was no intention to belittle anyone else's work, and I sincerely apologise if that is how my post came across.

Note that I said that I did not require a translation:

Quote
No need to translate
Again, I sincerely apologise for failing to read your post properly, and for translating.

Offline Gadget

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 57,138
    • View Profile
Re: Poor Handwriting and in Latin! COMPLETED with Thanks
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 19 June 13 08:40 BST (UK) »
Without the addition, It did come over as quite dismissive, Bookbox. I'll put it down to the written word being  sometimes not too good at expressing one's real meaning  :)
Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

***Restorers - Please do not use my restores without my permission. Thanks***