1851 Census Lookup Please!

[ecksdochter]

Hello Karen,
     Try Thomas Disy. Birth: 1808, Dunfermline, Fifeshire. Residence: Dunfermline, Fifeshire, Scotland.
That should find him.
 
     1851 Scotland Census. 22 Knabbie St, Dunfermline, Fife.
          Alexr  Disy    Head            79  Cowfeeder.         
          Marie  Disy    Wife             76         -                   
          Thomas Disy  Son             43  Hand Loom Weaver.
          Mary Ann Pollando  G.Dau 19  Servant.             
          Margret Disy   G.Dau           9                       
          Hellen  Disy    G.Dau           5  All born Dunfermline, Fife.

     ScotlandsPeople has a match coming up for Thomas Diey, age 43 at Dunfermline, Fife.

               Regards,     Dod.                           
         

     

[kpnut]

Hi Dod

Thanks very much.  I'll have a look and see what else I can find.

Have been searching for this family for years.  Elizabeth, (Thomas's daughter born c1849-1851) was my great grandmother.

Just out of interest have you found the family on an earlier or later census than 1861 at all?

Thanks again
Karen

[MonicaL]

Hi Karen

Dod is offline, so on her behalf! This looks like 1841 for Thomas' parents I think:

Alex Dey 65 carter
Masey Dey 65
Helen Donald 15
Ann Pollins 12
Address: Abbot Street, Dunfermline, Fife

Relationships within households in 1841 were not normally included.

Monica

[kpnut]

Hi Monica

Many thanks for that info.  Is there any other info on Thomas and family in any of the censuses?

Funny it should be spelt Dey, as I was always led to believe that Elizabeth's maiden name was DAY (which is what shows on her first marriage certificate as her maiden name).

I have a feeling that Thomas's wife (Elizabeth's mother) MAY have been called Jane, but I'm not 100% sure of that fact.

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Regards
Karen

[MonicaL]

Was Jane, who showed as wife to Thomas in 1861, the mother to all three girls? What was her maiden name?

You have Thomas with his parents in 1851 and two eldest girls in Dunfermline. Have you tried to find Jane....Elizabeth might be with her in 1851.

Monica

Added: Don't worry about the surname spelling variations. Happened a lot at time. Day etc will be one of those surnames that is likely to have lots of variations, not helped either by mistranscriptions!

[kpnut]

Hi again Monica

I have NO other info whatsoever.  I don't have a maiden name for Jane (and not really sure how to go about finding CONCRETE info on that), and I have no idea whether or not she was mother to all three girls.

In fact there would have been FOUR girls if the Mary Ann you found in the 1851 census was also a sister of Elizabeth, Margaret and Hellen, (and daughter of Thomas and Jane).  She was shown as 19 and then Margaret as 9 (so 10 years in between the two, so not sure about her) - ANY IDEAS?

All I know is that Elizabeth (my great great grandmother) married for the first time in 1867 to a Michael Robinson in Tynemouth, Northumberland.  My great grandmother Helen Veitch Thewlis was the youngest daughter from Elizabeth's 2nd marriage.

I have often wondered where the "Veitch" part of her name came from.  I always thought it sounded German, but have been informed by MANY people that Veitch is a very common surname in Scotland - so maybe, just maybe Jane's surname COULD have been Veitch (a long shot I know - but they did used to use family "surnames" as middle names a lot of the time).

Another possibility is that - as the 1851 census shows Mary Ann with a surname of Pollando, and Pollins in 1841, and also Helen's surname as Donald (one of those COULD have been Jane's surname), maybe she was married before she married Thomas, as we presume those children (because of the ages) are single.

I will try to have a search for Jane and Elizabeth (it would only be in the 1851 and 1861 censuses, as she (Elizabeth) was married by the 1871 census.

Many thanks for any more help you can give.

Regards
Karen

[MonicaL]

Sorry, Karen. Just back from taxi service to children...sigh 

From what you mention:

So Elizabeth married in England. Pity. Scottish marriage certs do given mother's full name including maiden surname. Might help to look for sister Margaret and Helen's marriages in case they married in Scotland.

Have you ever used the official pay to view site www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk Costs very reasonable for images of BMD certs which are avaible to view immediately and download. If Elizabeth's father Thomas remained in Scotland and died there, his death cert should include his wife's full names (sometimes other spouses if married previously) and his parents' full names if known to the informant.

Let me keep looking around as I am sure others will to 

Monica

[MonicaL]

Karen, these surnames you are working from are sure all hard to search for in the main due to variants and mistranscriptions  People pop in and out with all these spellings!

You mentioned the surname VEITCH. I think that possibly Helen, Elizabeth's sister, married a James Veitch in 1865 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTPF-P6F

Two daughter only that I can see for them so far from FS:

Mary Gillespie Veitch 1865 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XT6D-VFH
Jeanniea (Jean/Jane/Jeannie etc) Cruckshanks ('normally' spelt Cruickshanks) Veith 1867 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XT6D-VF8https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903
/1:1:XT6D-VF8

Possible 1871 entry:

Ellen Veitch 25, factory worker, b. Leith Edinburgh
Mary Veitch 5 b. Sinclairtown, Fife
Jane Veitch 3 b. Sinclairtown, Fife
Address: Golfdrum St, Dunfermline Burgh

You could maybe check the marriage cert for this Helen Dye and James Veitch. Would let you at least confirm father and mother's details.

Maybe your great grandmother was names after this Helen Dye Veitch?

Monica

[kpnut]

Hi again Monica

I REALLY appreciate all your help.  I have been on the Scotlandspeople site, but have never really worked out how to use it properly.

The real problem in looking for marriages of Helen and Margaret is that I don't REALLY know the true spelling of the surname, and there appears to be SO MANY different variations so could cost a fortune trying to find the right ones.

I think Thomas remained in Scotland as I THINK I found him in the 1891 census (on his own) aged 85 at 85 Pittencrieff Street (shown as a Retired Wright) - (listed as Thomas Dye).

In 1881 he is lodging with the Burgess family at 5 Pattison Street, and is showing as "Formerly Joiner" (which would fit).  I haven't found him in the 1871 census, but in 1861 he's at Relief Street with wife Jane, children Margaret, Helen and Elizabeth and a grandson called John Baird born 1860 (I wonder if John Baird could be the son of the Mary Ann we didn't know much about).

All getting VERY confusing.

Thanks for any more help you can give.  This has evaded me for years now, but with your help I FINALLY feel like I might be getting somewhere.

Thanks again
Karen