JOHNS family Moretonhampstead - another go at the brickwall!

[ggrocott]

My ggggrandfather was George Johns.

On 22nd January 1840 he married a widow, Frances Davey nee Thomas at Chepstow.  According to the parish records the marriage was by banns. Witnesses Owen Mc Covey and Orpheus Lewis. Father of groom George Johns farmer. Groom bachelor and labourer. Bride Widow, father Arnold Thomas, tiler.

In 1841 bride and groom age 25 are in Chepstow with daughters Margaret and Elizabeth.

In 1851 the family is still in Chepstow but the groom has aged dramatically:-
George Johns   60 born Chepstow.
Frances Johns   40
William Davey   19
Elizabeth Johns   10
Mary Johns   8
George Johns   5
Richard Johns   3
Thomas Johns   1

In 1861 he has got younger and changed his birthplace


George Johns   49 born Moreton Hampstead, Devon
Frances Johns   49
George Johns   15
Richard Johns   13
Thomas Johns   11
Hannah Johns   7

on 27th February 1871 he is buried in Chepstow apparently age 60.

I cannot find a George Johns son of George Johns baptised in Chepstow or Moreton Hampstead around 1812 or 1790 but the Moreton Hampstead records show that William Johns married Elizabeth Gifford 6 March 1798. William Johns son of William Johns baptised 17 Feb 1799 and another on 9 Jan 1809. William Johns age 17 buried 13 November 1826. George Johns son of William baptised 20 June 1812.

Samuel and Elizabeth Johns baptised Elizabeth 1807, Mary 1805 and Samuel 1803,

So is 'my George Johns' actually the son of William Johns and Elizabeth Gifford?

Can anybody help me find out or has any better theories?

Any assistance or thoughts welcomed - this has been puzzling me for many years - I may have to take a trip to Devon to investigate further!

Gill

[Devon Maid]

On the Familysearch site is a George Johns, bpt,  Moretonhampstead, 20 Jun 1812, father William, no mother listed

The batch number for this site (baptisms) is C051511

sue

[ggrocott]

Yes, that is the one I have found - I just don't know whether to accept that as 'mine' when he says his father was George!

[alpinecottage]

Have you found a burial for William Johns in Moreton Hampstead?  If George's father died when he was young (say before 1820 or so) he may not have remembered his father and have been mistaken about his name   

It is also not impossible that the copy of the wedding cert/details you have may have a mistake on it, ie the father's name wrong.  Are  William (poss father) and Samuel's baptisms recorded in Moreton Hampstead  or nearby and if so, was there a 3rd brother called George?  Weighing up these questions may help you decide whether to accept William snr  or not.

[ggrocott]

Thanks for the suggestions.

Have not, so far, been able to find a burial for William or baptisms for William or Samuel - I don't have access to the Moreton Hampstead parish records except via familysearch which doesn't usually include burials and which I find very hard to use since they changed the format.

I realise that the marriage certificate may be incorrect, particularly as the census entries seem to represent a certain lack of concern about accuracy?!!!  Although the George Johns in 1851 could be his father and he is away from home ........................................

Maybe I should try to track Samuel's family a little further.

Gill

[ggrocott]

Having another go at this!  :-)

I have now found a Charles Johns, who says on his marriage certificate (wife Grace Vanstone Sanders) that his father is William Johns, he variously claims to be born in Moreton, Devon and Merton Devon in 1814.

Interestingly the name Sanders/Saunders is one that I have found linked to the Johns family of Moreton Hampstead so I am wondering whether this is a relation (brother?) to George. 

'Silvester Treleavens Diary 1800.  Mon. Apr. 7th. They were taken to Crockernwell, and after a short examination were committed to Bridewell. N.B. Ann Saunders is a daughter off old Gifford at Court, and John’s married another sister, Johns lately belonged to the Royal Cornish Militia, volunteered for the 62nd Regt. feigned himself ill and got discharged.  Old Gifford and all his family are a set of notorious thieves.'  relating to a burglary by a certain William Johns and Ann Saunders.

As yet I have been unable to find baptism for Charles.

Any help gratefully received.