Am I reading too much into this?

[greenvalley]

Thanks Forfarian,

I was thinking like you, but then why was Margaret always registered as Alexander's daughter on the 1851 and 1861 census and on the marriage certificate in 1866? Surely Alexander would not have been noted as her real dad if he wasn't?

Margaret seems to have gone off the rails in 1887 - drinking heavily and not returning home for days - and her husband divorced her in 1891. So basically Sarah hardly saw her mother from the age of 10 and the one she did know got in trouble for stealing and drinking.

Another fact that may have played a role in how she saw her grandmother is that her grandfather Alexander remarried and his 2nd wife was "a woman of ill repute", she too was an alcoholic, got in trouble for stealing and other things.

I wonder if perhaps the reputation of her mother and step-granny influenced how she thought of her real gran?

As I said, I can't make up my mind and remain confused.

Greenvalley

[greenvalley]

I also meant to say that Sarah and Alexander were married in Kendal in England in 1840.

So if Margaret is illegitimate then Sarah had 5 legitimate children by her husband in 1841, 1843, 1848, 1854 and 1858 and in the middle of this Margaret in 1846 by another man. Seems unlikely somehow. (I mean, surely, even if she had strayed she would never have confessed to it, would she?)

Also children number 2,3 and 4 were born in Auchterarder (according to census records - there are no birth records on Scotlandspeople), I would think that cheating on your husband without anyone knowing in such a small community would have been very difficult.

Greenvalley
 

[IMBER]

Why were Sarah and Alexander married in England?  The English connection may just point to a preference for the Scottish Episcopal Church and the possibility of births of children being registered outwith the Established Church as already mentioned above. The records may be held by the National Archives of Scotland.

Imber

[greenvalley]

I always assumed that Alexander and Sarah went to Kendal to work there.

The records show that they were married in Kendal in 1840 and their first son James was born there in April 1841. (I used to have his birth but lost it and can no longer find it on any record - all I now have is a census in which James indicates that's where he was born.) Sarah And Alexander were back in Scotland in time for the 1841 Census in Perth.

Sarah is from Haddington and Alexander was born in Newburgh Fife. I have no idea where they met.

Why would the English connection point to a preference for the Scottish Episcopal Church? I don't understand that reference.

As far as I know they were members of the Church of Scotland and therefore Presbyterians.

Greenvalley

[Forfarian]

I think you are probably right to be uncertain!

[IMBER]

Why would the English connection point to a preference for the Scottish Episcopal Church? I don't understand that reference.

I just wondered whether one of them had strong Anglican connections and so might be attracted to the Episcopal Church rather than the Kirk. But if, as you suspect, they were in England only to work then that sort of kicks that theory out of the window. But just in case, the following link is an interesting commentary on the subject:

http://www.maybole.org/community/churches/stoswalds/Irish%20Roots%20and%20the%20Episcopal%20Church%20in%20Maybole%20by%20Rev.%20Dr%20Ian%20Meredith%20BA%20MTh%20PhD.pdf

Imber

[Forfarian]

Why would the English connection point to a preference for the Scottish Episcopal Church? I don't understand that reference.

Because the Scottish Episcopal Church is 'in communion with' the Church of England. People who are members of the C of E and move to Scotland tend to go to the Episcopal Church because its organisation, services, doctrines and so on are what they are accustomed to.

The Church of Scotland (and most of the free churches, of which we have a large, weird and wonderful variety in Scotland) are organised very differently. There are no bishops in the Presbyterian churches, and no doctrine of the laying on of hands, and there are many other doctrinal and liturgical difference. Most Presbyterian churches also eschew many of what they see as 'high church' practices. So they might feel quite alien to someone who has been in the habit of attending the C of E.

In this case, it probably isn't relevant, because both were born in Scotland, and in any case the dates point rather to the Free Church than to the Episcopal Church.

[greenvalley]

The Harris family were definitely Free church, as far as I know. Not keen on any ceremonies.

I guess I'll never know why Sarah gave such a muddled account of things. Perhaps it was the thing with having "two" grannies" and perhaps the person taking the information wasn't too clever either.

Thanks for all your help and advice. Much appreciated

[IMBER]

Just noticed that the 1841 census has James born in England but the 1851 census gives Perth. FreeBMD does not seem to record him born in England.

Imber