Ruthin or Corwen?

[jones9]

Roger,

What you're saying is very interesting - I hadn't considered any relationship other than daughter before but she could well be a niece or cousin who was orphaned and came to love with them? I agree it seems unlikely that a woman her age could be her mother though still possible.

Their children were:
John b.1802 Bantry Bay, Ireland
Elizabeth b.1805 Eastbourne
Edward, b.1808 Portsmouth
Thomas, b.1814 Plymouth
Owen, b.1820 Chester

It does seem odd moving back to Corwen - but then perfectly possible especially if a relative died such as the Margaret anyone's whose will I have ordered  I'll have to wait until then to find out regarding that connection.

I haven't found anything in a chester either, I'll have a look later for Corwen to see if she could be another relation. Still if this is the case it seems likely that the Corwen baptism for Thomas is correct. What are your thoughts about John and Hannah/Ruthin? Could this just be a red herring?

[despair]

I honestly have no idea whether it is a red herring.I hadn't picked up that there was an Owen either.I'll also carry on looking.Perhaps concentrate on what the "big picture" looks like without considering Margaret(1828)?

Regards
Roger

[despair]

Still not found anything relating to John/Hannah.
I can find a few further records that are for a Thomas in the right timescale and area but no obvious connection with other data.
There are some notes on militia officers in the Ruthin Record Office(the elder Thomas from the record found previously was a Serjeant),but they are not digitised.
Having re-read your other posts I got distracted by your "Goodman Jones" post as I have a single isolated example of a "Goodman Jones" from Ruthin in my own family,albeit from the 20th century.
I looked a bit further into your query and came up with a number of possible connections between Ruthin and Corwen and Corwen and Chester,including inevitably a shoemaker,but not,so far an obvious connection to a likely Thomas.
I will try to summarise all these records tomorrow.

Regards
Roger

[jones9]

Roger,

Many thanks for all this research you have done! I'm afraid I haven't got much further than posting the letter to the NLW as I'm waiting to see whether this will proves to be any connection.

When you mention records you've found regarding Thomas Jones, is this the 1776-1854 Thomas Jones I know for sure is an ancestor, or the possibilities for his father?

Regarding Goodman Jones, the only connection is the marriage record of Henry Edward Jones and Margaret Peake (who was born in Corwen), where a witness is Sarah Goodman Jones. This marriage took place in Walton on the Hill, in Liverpool which interestingly is where the descendants of Owen Jones b.1820 ended up living. Henry Edward Jones was the grandson of Edward Jones b.1808.

The will of John Jones of Ruthin (husband of Hannah) has a Goodman Roberts as a witness - although I doubt whether this is a connection.

I look forward to hearing your findings - I'm sorry there's nothing new which I can reveal on my side at the moment.

Many thanks,
Jomes9

[jones9]

Roger as you chanced upon other posts, do you think there's anything in the penmaenmawr connection? There doesn't seem to be anything in it as all arrows seem to point to Corwen. It could be anything from an ancestor took a holiday there to family originated from there.

[despair]

I've not found anything that suggests a link to Penmaenmawr.
There are two records for Llanrhydd that might relate to the Thomas circa 1776-1780 i.e.:-

1776 Thomas base born to Thomas Jones,corvicer by Elizabeth Wm(?),widow

1780 Tho son of Tho Jones,joyner by Elizabeth his wife

Again at the moment,I can't relate these to other records

On the "Goodman Jones" front,one tree has Sarah as the daughter of Edward(1808) and a William(1817),but no Margaret in the family.I can see nothing to support this,but for info(or entertainment) it is here:

http://www.thepeerage.com/p59569.htm

Regards
Roger

[despair]

Also,under Llandrillo there is

1778 Thomas son of William Jones and Jane-"Cynwyd Fawr"

1778 Thomas son of Thomas Jones and Mary -"Bodheulog"

1780  Thomas son of Maurice Jones and Jane - "Corwen"

Regards
Roger

[jones9]

Roger thanks for your reply.

The base birth to Thomas and Elizabeth seems possible/likely even with corviser as occupation and would perhaps explain move to Corwen as a child if he was raised by someone other than his father? - but I still think the 1776 baptism in Corwen is the most likely at this point - if I can find a connection to shoemaking.

I don't put much faith in the online family trees, quite a few on the web connect the family to a Thomas born 1776 in Portsmouth/Plymouth because of his sons' connections to the area. The William Jones is interesting however - I have found this baptism on familysearch, although by his military record it would appear that he was in Crete asking to be discharged at the time of his birth - although it does not rule it out as a possibility as he may have been home before that. Would the father need to be present to be recorded on the baptism record, do you know?

I look forward to hearing your connections to Corwen/Ruthin and Chester when you get a chance and I'll post anything else I find.

[despair]

I think there are two possibilities for the identity of Sarah Goodman Jones,the witness you referred to.However,they both link to the same family as one is the sister and the other the wife of John Goodman Jones.
He is baptised 1847 in Corwen to John and Susan(na) Jones(nee Edwards).John's occupation is given as ostler.
He can first be seen on the 1851 census(ref 2509  273  10) with family in Queen Square,Corwen.
There is already a connection with Liverpool as there are nieces,born Liverpool with them.
These appear to be the children of Robert and Margaret Edwards,with Margaret presumably Susanna's sister,and very likely related to the next door neighbour in Queen Square,a Margaret Edwards
It looks like John Goodman Jones marries a Sarah Merriman in West Derby,Liverpool in 1879 but dies in 1888.A will exists but not online as far as I know.

There are obviously two key questions,assuming I have the right people:-
Is there a familial link of this family to your family or did the witness have some other link?
If there was a link when and via whom did it occur?

I will post separately on the numerous "Goodman Jones" who may eventually supply any link-which I have not found yet.

Regards
Roger