Alexander Brown, Ironmoulder

[canberraterry]

I am intrigued by this discussion as one of my great great grandfathers was a John Browne of Londonderry who was recorded variously as an ironmonger and as a blacksmith. According to family lore he provided most of the decorative ironwork in Derry at the time. He was born abt 1830, and died Apr-Jun 1900. He married a Margaret Rutherford Andrews (who I believe was a Scot) and had children Margaret, Ada, Agnes, David, John, Mag, Jane and Jeannie, my great grandmother 1855 - 1921). Mag was a teacher married a Mr Lowry and may have migrated to the USA.
The occupations and similarities with names are interesting.

Any connection with your family Kipper 5?

Does anyone else know if my John Browne was from the previously mentioned Foyle Road family? (I have so far been unable to find any more about him except that he was a big burly man much loved by my grandmother for his cheery disposition and his habit of always having pennies for them to spend on lollies.)

[Kipper5]

Hello canberraterry,

I'm not sure about the immediate connection. John Brown in our Brown family was born in Scotland in 1947 and died in 1897 in Derry. He married Sarah something, born in 1843 in Tyrone, and died 1903 in Derry. I don't think they had any children, as John's will found by A Brown has leaving everything to his siblings and his wife, Sarah.

There may be some connection though, so I will have a look at the census'.

thank you for your info.

[Kipper5]

Hello Alex Hampton,
I saw the birth certificate of Alexander Brown Wylie from 1880, and this gives his mother's name as Mary Wylie, "formerly Brown".
So I think she must have been related to our Browns in Derry.

Now I know her maiden name, I will try to find the details of her marriage to John Wylie. The marriage certificate should give the name of Mary's father. The 1911 Walton census states that they were married for 48 years at that time, so c 1863.
They were both from Ayrshire, so maybe they were married there. Or maybe Liverpool. Or maybe even Derry.
Regards

[aghadowey]

Possible marriage- John Wylie to Mary Brown 1863-
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGNR-N3N

[Kipper5]

Wow, thank you, Aghadowey!
I think that's them!
They were married at St Columb's in Derry on 10 Nov 1863.
John Wylie is listed as an Engine Fitter.
His father was also a John Wylie, a farmer.
Mary Brown's father is listed as Alexander Brown, a moulder.

In the 1871 census in Liverpool John Wylie is Engineer Steam Vessel. They probably moved to Liverpool for his work.

And so Mary was a daughter of Alexander Brown, from his first marriage. <<This means also that her son, Alexander Brown Wylie (who was named after his grandfather!) married his first cousin, Amy Johnson Brown in 1911. (Amy's father was Robert Hamilton Brown, sister of Mary Brown/Wylie, be it from her father Alexander's second marriage)>>

I'd like to now find Mary Brown/Wylie's birth record.
According to all the census' in Liverpool her birth year ranges from 1842 to 1844 in Ayrshire.
The census of 1851 in Scotland has her father's family with his second wife (from 1845) in Johnstone, Renfrewshire, and there is a daughter Eliza, age 7, born in Newton upon Ayr, Ayrshire. Maybe this was Mary??
Thanks again, Aghadowey

[Carole Hampton]

Hi Kipper      Sorry for loss of contact but my broad band went off early Dec and there followed endless troubles..followed by Christmas!   I have managed a little research and had got part way to Mary Brown. Very pleased that you seem to have reached most of it for me.  Need to sit down now and work out who may be related to who. All the other ancestors I have researched seem to have no living relatives...this Brown thing is the exception
 Re John Wylie my Dad used to say he was a ships Chief Engineer for Larranaga a Portuguese os Spanish outfit. Also my cousin son of Kate Hampton tells me that she used to speak of her Aunt Kate.
All the best for 2014

[Kipper5]

Happy New Year, Alex.
Nice to hear your family stories.

I've had no luck finding the birth details of Mary Brown in Ayrshire in 1843. I really want to find her mother's maiden name. I believe she also had a sister Elizabeth born in Ayrshire in 1844, but I can't find her details either.
I believe their mother must have died in about 1844, for their father Alexander Brown remarried in 1845 and went on to have 9 children (John, Alexander, James, Robert Hamilton, Janette, Agnes, Margaret and Jean) with second wife, Agnes Stewart; daughter Margaret was my great-grandmother.
Regards

[Kipper5]

Hello Alex/A Cole,

Here is the obituary of Alexander Brown snr (our gg grandfather), a very helpful person from the Derry Central library sent me:

[Kipper5]

Sorry, I pressed Post by accident.

As I was saying, here is the obituary of Alexander Brown snr, from the Derry Standard on 19 Feb 1908:

"Death of Mr. Alexander Brown

The death took place yesterday of Mr Alexander Brown, who was for more than half a century a resident of Derry, and for a considerable part of that time one of its most enterprising manufacturers. A native of Scotland he came to the Maiden City as managing foreman of the old Wellington Foundry, in Foyle Street, of which the late George Green was then proprieter. After a period of service in that employ he began business on his own account in premises on Foyle Road which stood on the site now occupied by Messrs. Burns' laundry, and by the character of his work and the energy he infused into the conduct of his business, he developed a trade which soon necessitated a removal to larger premises. What was then known as McCarter's Saw Mill, Foyle Street was secured, and in that new location Mr Brown was able, with the assistance of sons, who were expert mechanical engineers, to still further develop his business, and to establish a widespread reputation for the excellence of his castings and other foundry work. Within quite recent years the opportunity of acquiring the goodwill and plant of Mr. George Green offered, and that business was taken over by the firm of Alexander Brown & Sons, the premises being rebuilt, Mr Brown senior thus coming ultimately into possession of premises, which he first entered as an employee. With the extended facilities which the new works gave, the firm enhanced the reputation which its head had already established, and many important contracts at home and at a distance were secured and faithfully executed. Deceased had reached his ninetieth year, and for some time past had not taken and active part in the firm's affairs, but he was one who, by constant strenuous effort intelligently and successfully directed, had earned a spell of repose in the evening of his days. In politics Mr Brown brought Liberalism with him from Scotland, and he was a Gladstonian of the old school. In all the relations of life he was a worthy, decent man. "

I also got his obituary from the Londonderry Sentinel and the Derry Journal, and they were very similar but with less detail. It's very interesting, but I was still hoping for a little more detail on his family and maybe for something on his first marriage. Great though.

Regards.