John Roberts 1839 (an unnecessarily common name, unfortunately)

[silverleaf79]

I've hit a bit of a wall with my paternal greatx2 grandfather, John Roberts. Here's what I know about him:

• Born around 1839 in Shrewsbury.
• Possibly living with aunt and uncle William and Mary Walker and their children in Shrewsbury in 1851. I don't know which one's his blood relation and I'm only assuming this is the right John Roberts because the birth date and place are right.
• He seems to have married a Phoebe before 1861, with Phoebe (1841) and son John (1859) living with him in Rowley Regis in the 1861 census.
• 1871 sees him living in Rowley Regis with wife Caroline (1844) and children Agnes (1867) and John (1869).
• 1881 he's in Oldbury, Worcestershire with Caroline (listed as 1850 in this one), Agnes, John, Eliza (1871), Daniel (my great grandfather, 1873), Mary A. (1879).

I'm having real trouble moving backwards from him - I can't find out anything more about his wives (and therefore Caroline, my greatx2 grandmother) because of how common his name is, and I know nothing at all about his parents. No birth record, not 1841 census which might show his parents. No clues anywhere except the possible aunt and uncle, and there are several possibilities there.

If the 1851 census is him, he's listed as the nephew of William and Mary Walker. So I guess it could go one of three ways:

• Mary's his father's sister, so her maiden name is Roberts.
• Mary's his mother's sister, so maiden name unknown.
• Williams's his mother's brother, so his mother's maiden name is Walker.

I'm going to investigate the possible aunt and uncle and see where that goes, but does anyone have any ideas what else I could look at?

[Kay99]

There is a possible marriage on FreeBMD of a John Roberts to a  Phoebe Salt - West Bromwich 1857 Sept qtr - 6b 759 and there is an early Phoebe Salt of the right age in an earlier census year

If it is the right couple it may give a father's name

Kay

Edit - However trees online have Phoebe Salt marrying the other man of the two possibles listed - Enoch Ball

[Kay99]

In 1841 he seems to have been living with the Walkers at St Chad, Frankwell, Shrewsbury, but Edward Walker and his mother? this time. 

WALKER, Edward 25    Hair Dresser?   
WALKER, Elizabeth 55        
WALKER, Jane    13          
ROBERTS, John    3

HO107 piece 926 folio 8/8 page 9          

[Kay99]

I wonder if this baptism of a John Walker Roberts on Family Search is him with mother Ellen?

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NGGY-FD9

[Manchester Rambler]

A birth certificate for one of the children would confirm Caroline's maiden name, but there is a good possibility on FamilySearch:

John Roberts m. Caroline James, 25 December 1865 at St Thomas, Dudbley.

No other details transcribed, unfortunately!

Rambler

[heywood]

Hello,
I wonder if the John Walker Roberts and the child with Edward in 1841 are the same child but not your John Roberts.
1871 has a JWR who is a hairdresser so I thought the trade may be in the family.

1841 926/29/8 has a 1yr old John with Sarah 30 yrs and siblings. Family Search shows father to be Owen and there is a death in 1841 which could be him.
Heywood

Added:
Just noticed that William Walker is also a hairdresser 
However John walker Roberts is in censuses so presumably isn't yours -so much for theories!

[heywood]

William Walker's wife is Margaret, not Mary. Family Search has a marriage for WW to Margaret Roberts  (3 dates in June 1830- perhaps banns also)

[silverleaf79]

Thank you for your help everyone! I'm still really struggling with this one - I think Caroline James is the most likely since her birthplace of Dudley is very close to Stourbridge which the birthplace on the 1871 and 1881 censuses.

I'm really not sure what to do next - do I find out as much as I can about Caroline James, in the hope that it's her? How do I check if I'm right? 

[silverleaf79]

R.e. William and Margaret/Mary Walker: it seems that Margaret's maiden name is Roberts, which most likely makes her John Roberts' father's sister.

Margaret Roberts' birthplace is listed as Bangor, and I was hoping that this would help me with finding her parents and siblings. Nope. Roberts is one of the most common names in Wales, and it seems that Margaret was pretty popular then too...

Wales 1841 is proving to be tricky here.

On the plus side though, if this all checks out, I'll be very pleased to have found a Welsh connection. This would be my first non-English ancestor.