Holland - 1841 Potsgrove Census

[essexkiwi]

According to 1841 Census Benjamin Holland, husband of Ann Dear, was 45, not born in county and despite long searches have been unable to trace his forbears - any suggestions please?  I do realise that there could be quite a variation of dob.  Occupation was shown as farmer.  He died before next Census.

[johnP-bedford]

Hello essexkiwi & welcome to RootsChat

Although Benjamin married Ann Dear in Shillington Beds in April 1833 the 1841 census has their children Elizabeth 1837 & John 1838 also not born in county. On later censuses they are down as being born in Chilton, Berkshire. The family seems to move to Potsgrove prior to birth of next child in 1840. Have you checked Berkshire parish records for Benjamin?

Also the 1833 marriage entry may mention where Benjamin was from, has that been checked.

Regards
John

[essexkiwi]

John
Thanks for such a prompt response - no, I haven't been able to see actual marriage record, as was pre-1837, and have only seen Potsgrove marriages from registers when researching this line many years ago.  Have looked on-line for Berkshire births, but will try again. Hoping to get back to England towards end of 2014 so may hit the record offices then!
Regards
essexkiwi

[johnP-bedford]

The 1833 Shillington marriage entry says Benjamin Holland, bachelor of Flitwick, Beds & it was by licence. Witnesses Thomas Jones or James & Mary Man?, couldn't decipher it. There are no Holland names at all in the Flitwick parish registers up to 1812.

[essexkiwi]

Thanks for that JohnP!  I have found a Benjamin Holland christened in Soulbury, Bucks (Father Holland, Mother Elizabeth) in 1791 which could match, as ages were rounded in 1841 Census. I might post a query to Bucks board to see if there is anyone who is researching that Holland line who can tell me more.  There does seem to be a bit of movement between Bucks and Beds in both lines of my family and my husband.  WIll have to sort out names and post some time. Thanks for your help - much appreciated.

[johnP-bedford]

Looked at the NBI for Holland burials at Potsgrove, Benjamin was buried 5 May 1850 age 59. There was also John Holland buried 9 May 1844 age 75 (born 1769), Elizabeth Holland buried 3 May 1829 age 60 (born 1769) & Mary Holland buried 14 May 1843 age 51 (born 1792). Looking at 1841 census, in nearby Husbourne Crawley is John Holland, shepherd age 70 NOT born in county, & (daughter?) Mary age 45 born in Beds. The IGI has baptism on 24 Mar 1793 at Potsgrove of Mary Holland, daughter of John & Elizabeth; plus the marriage at Potsgrove on 17 Sept 1790 of John Holland & Elizabeth Staniford.

Might these be Benjamin's parents?

Regards John

[essexkiwi]

John
I think you might be right - I had the burials - interesingly enough the Benjamin christened at Soulbury was also the son of Holland & Elizabeth, so may tie them all together.  Could I be cheeky enough to ask if you could give details of witnesses to John & Elizabeth's marriage?  I wish I had known all this when I last visited Potsgrove and Sheep Lane many years ago.  Maybe next year I'll make it again.
Thanks again
Aileen

[johnP-bedford]

Come on Aileen ! you don't need to be cheeky!  The marriage entry in the Potsgrove PR has witnesses George Turney, Collett Staniford & J Butterfield. The marriage was by licence rather than by banns. The marriage licence transcript dated 16 Sept 1790 has John Holland, a servant age 20 & Elizabeth Staniford age 21; surety was given by John Butterfield, dairyman of Potsgrove.

I noticed another entry in the Potsgrove PR; for the banns of marriage of James Holland to Elizabeth Taylor, of Doddington, Northants dated 23 Sept 1804.

Regards John 

[essexkiwi]

John - You are such a star!  Sorry for delay in replying - retirement = too much time, too much to catch up on and fun to be had!  I am reasonably comfortable with your suggestion that these are the parents.  At present I m trying to work out why Family Search has managed to transcribe the bride as Elizabeth "Steinforth"!  I guess we never know for sure who our ancestors are, without DNA proof, and I think that is a road to be avoided.  It's hard enough trying to explain, bastardy orders, children abandoned in workhouses without raising more questions!   
Thanks again, this Bedfordshire list is certainly more helpful than some of the others I watch.