Bridgnorth records

[Trees]

Right to summarise all your wonderful information for which I can't thank you enough
St Leonard's Church on 17 Oct 1858.
Andrew DOWNES, age 22, Bachelor, Labourer of Church Steps. Father = Thomas BAKER, a Labourer. [ I typed two exclamations marks to record that it wasn't my typo error]
Sarah JONES, age 26, Spinster of Church Steps. Father = Thomas JONES, a Labourer.

25 Dec 1861 St Leonard's Bridgnorth
Gorge DAVIES, age 23, Bachelor, of Cartway, Bridgnorth. Father = John DAVIES, a Labourer.
Elizabeth DOWNES, age 23, Spinster, of Cartway, Bridgnorth. Father = Thomas BARKER [maybe BAKER] a Farmer.
Witnesses were Andrew DOWNES and Eliz’th DOWNES.

So:
Thomas Baker father of
Andrew Downes 1836
Elizabeth DOWNES 1838

1841 H0107/923/ 4/13 / 19
Andrew Downes 50
Ann 45
Mary 25
William 15
Andrew 5
Elizabeth 2

1851HO107/1986/347/37
Mary with Andrew and Elizabeth

Baptism Andrew Downes 25th March 1836 St Mary Magdelene
Baptism Elizabeth Downes 16th June 1839 St Mary Magdelene
Both showing Mother Mary Ann Downes
Also on same 1851 is a Benjamin Hudson Downes baptised possibly 4th June 1843 same mother?

Andrew Downes 25 b Bridgnorth
Sarah 29 b Bardingston
Benjamin 2 b Bridgnorth
Residing at 71, Underhill Street, Bridgnorth
1861 Census ref RG09/1850/41/12
Keyboard86

[interesting they had a benjamin so it could well be that Ben. Hudson Downes was their brother]

Now was Mary in a relationship with Thomas BAKER and had the children by him with out bothering a priest or did she marry Thomas some time between 1851 and 1858 but that is such a short time for Andrew to consider him his father I am beginning to think it was an open secret that Mary had the children by Thomas who for some reason was unable or unwilling to marry.
Keyboard you said the baptisms show mother Mary Ann was there any mention of a father? 
Gwynne are there any bastardy papers for Bridgnorth still around? Mind if Thomas acknowledged the children as his there would not be any would there.
So next I need find Thomas Baker on a census or two
I must also look again at George DAVIES now we have his father as John too boy is this turning into an interesting chase I and my cousins thank you so very much for all this help

[Trees]

It looks like Thomas Baker the farmer was married to a Mary and had two children Thomas 1833 and Mary 1836 HO107/922 /7 fo4 p1 in Quatfortd Eardington
I wonder was Mary working on his farm and rumbled in the hay too often 
Are there any records for parish apprentices around for Bridgnorth it would be interesting to see if Mary Downes went to the Baker farm.
   

[Trees]

From that marriage both George Davies and Elizabeth DOWNES are born 1838
All the post marriage censuses show them to be the same age as each other and always born in Bridgnorth so I am confident these are the couple I want just not too good on knowing when they were born.
So now the hunt is on for George Davies son of John and treat Richard and Maria as red herrings
Tally Ho the hunt is on.

[Mr Gwynne Chadwick]

Hi,
Glad to help.

I’m just about to return to the Library and the Parish registers (Bridgnorth town only)
I’ll photograph that 1858 and 1861 marriage entry for you. Do you want to private message me with your email address?
Due to other commitments, I can’t offer to search the records today but could look or photograph any specific records for you.

Gwynne

[Trees]

By the way  the first child of George and Elizabeth DAVIES was MARY ANN born 1863 which adds weight to Elizabeth's mum being Mary Ann. They had five sons George, Richard W., Charles J.,  Thomas and William none with  first name John (was it Charles John?)but there is a son Thomas so prehaps Thomas Baker did support Mary Ann's children.

[Trees]

Many thanks to Gwynne for the photographs of the marriage entries. A big surprise was to find that Andrew's marriage was witnessed by Thomas Baker! now was this his father of a step brother or just a Friend with that name, there were several Thomas Bakers in the area but what a coincidence that would be. The second witness was Anna Pearce and an Ann Pearce was a servant with an Edward DAVIES and with her is another servant Mary Barker who I don't think is significant but have noted anyway. So is this Edward Davies going to be useful/
I have asked my cousin to send for Bertha Davies' birth certificate to confirm her mother's surname as I am still uneasy with the age difference from the censuses and what appears to be Elizabeth Downes baptism will report back when it arrives.
Mean while I am going to concentrate on George Davies for a while.

[Trees]

AGGGH 
RED FACE and so many appologies Pass a large slice of hunble Pie Please Please forgive me

I was still mithered with the age problem so decided to take a step back
I started by listing the censuses we know are right
1871 RG10/ 2743 fo 51p26
1881 RG11/ 2630 fo63 p22
1891 RG12/2094 fo118 p23
1901 RG13/ 2518 fo 117 p25

So the 1911 was not on my list found it and there it was under my nose they had been married 42 years so married in 1869 a first look in Free BDM no joy but when I put Phonetic search up came George DAVIS marrying ELIZABETH PAINTER in Dec qtr 1869 in Bridgnorth. A look in Shropshire BMD confirms that they married in St Mary's

Oh dear how very silly I feel I have lead you all on a wild goose chase but at least it was interesting with that odd problem of a father with a different name.
So I now have to tell my cousin I am officially a daft old idiot and start the hunt all over again

A big SORRY and thank you all for your splendid work on my behalf
/
But how have they got children born before 1869 did he infact marry Elizabeth Downes first
Was there an Elizabeth death between 1867 and 1869?

YES there is Elizabeth DAVIS died June qtr 1869 age 38

so its the age again that worries but IT COULD BE ELIZABETH DOWNES after all
OK a slightly less red face

[rosie99]

from familysearch
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NFSK-WP6

6th December 1869 - Bridgnorth
George Davis father Richard Davis
Elizabeth Painter father John Painter

[Trees]

So that takes me back to the original father I had for George. Now then I have at least two children including my cousin's direct ancester Bertha born before that marriage and the Elizabeth who died in Dec qtr 1869  not that Elizabeth is shown as 38  Elizabeth Downes would have been 28 I wonder if there was a transcription error along the way But what about father John for George on the Elizabeth DOWNES marriage that is very clear on the photo Gwynne kindly sent Was his father Richard John or John Richard  umm Cousin B you are giving use all a merry chase with this one but I know you are grateful.
I'lll take a look for Miss Painter to see what her age was