Fanny (WALL) BYRNES

[olive paton]

In 1871/1881 Wednesbury Staffs Census Fanny Byrnes born 1837 Hattingdom Notts .In these census records She is the wife of Thomas Byrnes .He is down as stepfather to Emma Wall born Wednesbury 1860 and William Wall born 1862.
I am Trying to find Fanny's Maiden name ? Was she a widow when she married Thomas Byrnes .
The only record of a marriage of Fanny Wall/Thomas Burns (different spelling) is 1866 West Brom.
Who was she previously married to ? and why cant I find the family matches for Wednesbury  1861 census if both her first children were born there.
Been hitting this brick wall for 12 months .

[lizdb]

Hi and welcome to Rootschat

There are a few ways you could try to progress this.
You could obtain the Walls/Burns marriage cert, and see if details on it lead you to believe it is the right one or not . things like their ages and occupations. Then you can see if Fanny is single or a widow, plus see her fathers name.

Or, you could get a birth cert of oneof the Byrnes children born to Thomas and Fanny. You would be sure this is the right family then. And it would give you Fanny'S maiden name. Wall or otherwise.

There is a William and Ann Wall in 1861, with a baby Emma. Have they been ruled out? Could Fanny be her pet name and she was really Ann?  More often Fanny is short for Frances - have you looked under that?

[olive paton]

Have Traced the Ann Wall /William Wall but they go on to have further children and dates of births don't seem to match.
Think I will take your advice and order one of their childrens Birth certs ,will this have Fanny's maiden name on this ? Have also tried the Francis root before .Thankyou

[Priscilla]

This looks to be the family on the 1871 Census:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/V5TP-XD9

Fanny though goes by the name Harriet ... and she was born in Nottingham.

Looks as though this is also the second marriage for Thomas as son Joseph is also aged 4 (as is Harriet's son William).

Wonder if Isaac, aged 1, is Thomas and Harriet's son, or from Thomas's first marriage?

Here is 1881 census

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X3VX-MWH

Harriet has now become Fanny ...

Wonder if this is daughter Emma's marriage?

Marriages Sep 1876
HOARE George Treasure to WALL Emma - Burton - Vol 6b - Page 455   

[olive paton]

That's Interesting and confusing ? on the England census I still have her as Fanny not Harriet William is aged 9 years not 4 .
Emma wall is aged 12years /William aged 9 joseph aged 4 .Isaac aged 1 year ?
Wonder why this would be so different ?

[lizdb]

If you look at the image, the name is unclear and I can see how familysearch may have misread it as Harriett, but it can equally be Fanny, and as that is her name in 1881 I would say it is Fanny in 1871 too.
The ages are clearly 9 and 4.

Sorry, but the familysearch transcription has just led to confusion.

I do agree place of birth is Nottingham on the image, not Hattingdom!

[olive paton]

Not a problem

[jan57]

 Olive 

 There's  a tree    on Ancestry   that has   Thomas Byrnes   on  ,   with wife  Fanny ,   and  William Wall  is on there  too ,  with   a  pic  of his birth  cert  ,    The info  on the cert  says  Born 3 Aug  1862    Father William    Iron Puddler ,   Mother ANN WALL  formerly EDWARDS ,   mother    is the informant   and   gave her  mark,  Address  is  Bradley Bilston

[olive paton]

This is my family tree but as I found out am not sure this is the correct William Wall as both his mother and father can be found on the 1871 Wednesbury census .There seem's to be a large family of Wall's in the Staffordshire area .Problem seems to be the repeated names of William/Thomas/John.
The Wall family seem to travel on mass for work between Openshaw in Lancashire and the Stafford areas .
What also makes things harder is there is a number of women in different generations of the same family with the name Fanny.