Smith Girls from West Auckland

[Beg Clonrode...]

Hi Denise...

Worth a further look...

Agnes Smith 1868-1946
http://www.mundia.com/au/Person/30030957/13695012263

Possibly her letters of administration at Dunedin Archives...

ANDREWS Agnes - Port Molyneux - Widow
http://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=22081107

and his...

ANDREWS Oliver - Romahapa - Farmer
http://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=22077820

-----

ANDREWS, Oliver (Mr & Mrs) - The Mist of Time
http://www.balcluthagenealogy.org.nz/06_Andf_Az.htm

Following link might work...

Libraries holding "The Mist of Time"
http://tinyurl.com/mfuvptk

If not...

TradeMe - The Mist of Time
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=685721242

Regards
Beg

[DeniseBS]

Hi Beg

I have worked through the Agnes Smith who married Oliver Andrews and I am sure she is the daughter of James and Margaret Smith.

I looked up the Mists of Time ref a number of years ago now and it wasn't all that helpful. It said "Mr & Mrs Oliver Andrews bought Petrie's house of Mr Allen, childless couple from Owaka."

Oliver Andrews was married to Mary Bootten , then she died in 1903 and he married Agnes Smith at James Kilgour's house in 1906. I believe James Kilgour was Agnes' brother in law. His wife was Mary Smith. These two girls were daughters of James Chapman Smith and Margaret Martin. James and Margaret had four other children.

Cheers

Denise

[Beg Clonrode...]

Hi Denise...

That's a nuisance :-)

Was a bit concerned that Balclutha was involved because you can't really get much further from Auckland.

Before you discount it fully you should email the tree owner and ask if he/she is just guessing at Agnes' parents or if he/she has an actual source e.g marriage or death certificate, family bible etc.

Out of interest, what's your source.

Must admit I've come across the surname KILGOUR previously. Not sure if it was in Thames or part of the BUTLER family. Will try and remember where :-)

Regards
Beg

[Beg Clonrode...]

I believe James Kilgour was Agnes' brother in law. His wife was Mary Smith. These two girls were daughters of James Chapman Smith and Margaret Martin. James and Margaret had four other children.

You might (or might not) be wrong about James Chapman SMITH. The following Mundia tree has an 1898 family photo of James Chapman SMITH, his wife Margaret and their seven surviving children. Two of their daughters had died pre-1898.

There's no mention of an Agnes or a Mary.

You might need to register with Mundia to see the photo...

http://www.mundia.com/au/Person/37815333/19145756839

...or just click here...

http://tinyurl.com/luv3ex9

Regards
Beg

[Beg Clonrode...]

Must admit I've come across the surname KILGOUR previously.

Hi again...

This is the KILGOUR connection I mentioned earlier.

Not sure if it's relevant or a coincidence. I'm guessing a coincidence :-)


Eliza Jane KILGOUR.
Born: Abt 1889
Marriage: Edward SMITH on 30 March 1909 in Mt Albert Auckland New Zealand.
Died: Abt 1975 aged about 86
 
Eliza married Edward SMITH, son of William John SMITH and Bridget Catherine (or Josephine) BUTLER, on 30 March 1909 in Mt Albert Auckland New Zealand. Edward SMITH. was born on 12 October 1884 and died on 6 August 1941 in Hamilton New Zealand.

http://homepages.vodafone.co.nz/~noelkeyes/1044.htm

Regards
Beg

[DeniseBS]

Hi Beg

Edward Smith is the youngest brother of the girls I am trying to find. Noel Keyes is my cousin and the information on his website in relation to this came from me.

As for your previous question re am I sure about the parents of Agnes Smith who married Oliver Andrews. Without any certificates no I am not 100% sure, but I am 99.9% sure. Although having another look again  this morning, I am not longer sure that she is the daughter of James Chapman Smith and Margaret Martin. There was another couple with the same names having children in the same area at the same time. This James and Margaret died in 1913 and 1915 respectively, both at the home of their son in law Andrew Kilgour in Romahapa. I think I said his name was James before, sorry that was a mistake. The reason I thought Agnes was their daughter probably happend as although the Greenfield James Smith was actually James Chapman Smith,  on the birth registrations he was only ever put down as James Smith. The births of Mary and Agnes in 1865 and 1867 fitted in with the births of his other children perfectly. But having found death notices for James and Margaret Smith dying at Andrew Kilgour's house and him being noted as their son in law it doesn't match up with the James Chapman Smith and Mary Martin of Greenfield.

I am not aware of any connection between these Kilgour's and the family of Ted's wife Eliza Jane.  There is a book about the Kilgours of Hui, West Auckland and from memory there is no mention of a connection with Southland/Otago. Andrew Kilgour's father was Alexander and he also had a brother Alexander. They were all bakers in the Balclutha area.

Cheers

Denise

[Beg Clonrode...]

Hi again...

That makes things a bit clearer thanks.

The only thing I can't yet see is the "sisters" connection you've made between Andrew KILGOUR's wife Mary m.s SMITH (b.1865 m.1885 d.1955) and the Agnes SMITH who married Oliver ANDREWS.

You said that the 1906 ANDREWS/SMITH marriage took place at Andrew KILGOUR's residence. I'm guessing that's from an ITM or newspaper notice. It does sort of imply that Mary and Agnes are related. I guess that's why you said "not 100% sure but I am 99.9% sure."

Maybe Mary and Agnes were cousins. I don't suppose Mary's father James SMITH might be a brother to your William John SMITH.... straw >>> clutch :-)

Apart from that, it's back to the drawing board :-) although I still think there's value in your contacting the tree owner I mentioned in Reply #27, if only to suggest that he/she either provides a source or corrects the tree.

Regards
Beg

[DeniseBS]

Hi Beg

I have sent a message to Dawn asking what her source was. I have a funny feeling it is going to turn out to be something I put on the NZSG mail list that the owner of the tree has misunderstood and put up as gospel.

If it is the same Dawn I was communicating with, I said that the Agnes born to William John and Bridget Smith nee Butler that she mentioned in an e-mail was the right one, meaning the one I am looking for and I think she has taken it to mean the right one as in the one who married Oliver Andrews.

The trouble with putting information on the internet that you haven't researched yourself.

I have one other Agnes that I still haven't discounted. She married George Edward Ormond in Gisborne in 1917 (I haven't seen the ITM yet so have no details). This is not the George Edward Ormond of the well known Gisborne family but one who was born in Roxborough and moved to Gisborne early 20th century to work for a family member. He died 1929 and is burial is on the GDC cemetery database, but no Agnes, She is still in Gisborne up to 1935 ER but then disappears. No death or remarriage on the online BDMs. I have spoke to a gt neice (?) of GEs recently she knew of the marriage to Agnes Smith but didn't know anything about Agnes or what happened to her. Need to see the ITM on my next visit to archives.

Cheers

Denise

[DeniseBS]

 
Hi Beg

I just thought you might like to know that I think I have found my Mary Smith. Looks like my grandfather's cousin got two things wrong; her married name was not like Smith and she  died 14 years after she thought she did.

With the extra New Zealand Herald newspapers coming on line I thought I would do some checking and I came up with the following:

Mary Hill of 7 Nikau Street New Lynn died in 1944. She was the wife of William Charles Frederick Hill and they were late of St Albans, Christchurch.

It looked like a pretty good fit to me. No age was mentioned but a quick check on NZBDM shows she was 70. Not quite right she should be 71, but close.

Then I checked for a marriage, which took place in 1909. I wondered why I didn't pick her as a possible when I transcribed all the Mary Smith Intentions to Marry. Turns out she lied about her age. As she was four years older then her husband she lied and said she was the same age. Or else I transcribed it incorrectly.

Just waiting for the marriage certificate to arrive for final proof. Pity there are so many public holidays in the way.

Keep your fingers crossed.

Cheers

Denise