Author Topic: Picconi family  (Read 6966 times)

Offline sami

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Re: Picconi family
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 26 December 13 19:27 GMT (UK) »
...I would have discounted this except that a relative has now told me his mother remembers the Italian side of the family coming to visit her mother (Elizabeth Foster's sister) from Canada!

I've been wondering if there is a 'best guess' date for this visit?

sami
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Online rosie17

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Re: Picconi family
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 26 December 13 19:59 GMT (UK) »
Wonder if this is him in 1891 census R Pecuni aged 26 Born Parnia Italy boarder civil parish  St Andrew Holborn London occupation ice cream worker ?

Offline lemur41

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Re: Picconi family
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 26 December 13 20:01 GMT (UK) »
We have to wait for Marilyn to come back to us all, if she knows any more .

Just think that it would need to be somebody with early knowledge of Picconi children, and Elizabeth's maiden name +  her  sister.

Which to me suggests William, who isn't mentioned in Marilyn's first posting. So was he "left" somewhere at 7 years old when Marilyn's Gt. Grandma married David John James in 1896.

Which could have made him vulnerable to finishing up in a British Workhouse/Orphanage and eventually sent to Canada under the Home Child programme.

I hope I am wrong

Yes the best guess date for the visit from Canada would be interesting

Offline lemur41

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Re: Picconi family
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 26 December 13 20:04 GMT (UK) »
Good find Rosie, it ties up with Sandra's find. Borgotaro is that area of Italy


Offline *Sandra*

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Re: Picconi family
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 26 December 13 20:42 GMT (UK) »
Background Info :- Elizabeth claimed to be a spinster on her marriage to David John James - Feb 23 rd 1896. Her father Albert Edward Foster deceased.
David John James death Lambeth London 1 d 202 - Q1 1902
Violet James 26 November 1898 - London, England, School Admissions and Discharges - Parent :  David. (Listed just above Gertrude Puckett)  A Death record for Violet Elizabeth James - Q2 - 1906 - 1b 51 OR noticed a possibility for daughter Violet James as an inmate Central London District Schools For Unions of City of London 1911.
There is a birth for another daughter Lillian Alexander James baptised 10 August 1902 - 54 Clarendon Square. David James listed as a soldier  deceased.
Here is a Canadian connection perhaps - Lillian A James married John F Newton - Q3 1924 - Pancras 1b155.
Lillian A Newton, aged 56 years, born 26th June 1902,  appears on an incoming passenger list Montreal to Liverpool 12 th August 1958 on the Empress of Britain. Also travelling husband John F Newton (Occupation Loco Driver) born 4 th July 1900. Going to 50 Selsdon Road. Cricklewood NW2
Hmmmm perhaps not just run into the Mazzerarty tree with photographs etc and this couple end up in Australia 

Elizabeth's sister Ada Annie Foster married Arthur William Puckett - Q4 - 1897 - 1b 185
Ada is stated as widowed by the 1911 Census, The couple had a son Frederick Puckett 1902 and daughter Edith 1st July 1906 (married to William Hellard  1924- died March 1994 Bury St Edmunds.  Checked the 1901 census but no William Foster living with Ada and Arthur. The 1901 census shows Ada and Arthur had 2 nephews living with them Charles Foster born 1890 and John Foster born 1891. Also a Gertrude Puckett aged 20 years. believe this may be an error and this is a daughter Gertrude Ada aged 2 years. Living at 57 Charlton Street.  There is also an London Schools Admissions and Discharges entry for Gertrude Puckett. 15 May 1901. St Aloysius' School. Camden.  Father Arthur. Address 57 Charlton Street.
Gertrude Ada Puckett married Frederick G Wales - Q1 - Jan/Feb/Mar 1927 - 1 b 438. Islington.
There is a UK Outward Passenger List entry (not sure if this is the same one but details fit)  for a Gertrude Ada Wales - 18 Jan 1927 - London to Melbourne. Australia on the Hobsons Bay.  Gertrude was a Sh Typist. Aged 30 years. 
John Foster could be John Albert Foster - Q1 - Jan 1891 - Baptised 15 February 1891 - Parents William J Foster and Henrietta Ellen Ross. Parents married Q2 - 1886 - St Saviour Southwark London - 1d 161.
William J Foster (Occupation cab-driver) appears to be living alone in 1901.

Sandra



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Offline AMBLY

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Re: Picconi family
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 26 December 13 21:24 GMT (UK) »
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=671762.0
Marilyn  has another topic , searching for inquests of:
1) Ada Gertrude PICCONI, child of Riccardo and Mary Elizabeth PICCONI. who died 30 Nov  1892, at 18 Malta Street, Holborn. This is the same address  as on  her sister Elsie Lucia's baptism on 22 Jan 1893.
2) David John JAMES (Mary Elizabeth;s husband)   who died 10 Feb 1902.

Rosie's find in 1891 Census Holborn, of  the Ice-cream Maker is a good one! (the place of Birth is Parma)

FreeBMD: DEATH Dec Qtr 1892, Holborn:
Ada Gertrude PECCONI age 2,

Cheers
AMBLY
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Offline Mazzerarty

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Re: Picconi family
« Reply #15 on: Friday 27 December 13 04:33 GMT (UK) »
Wow! Thanks for all the replies...
I did not realise (as I'm new to this) that I needed to post all the details I already know, so thanks to those who've looked up a whole lot of stuff for me. I am most impressed with the ice cream maker find - I did have that on Ancestry on my Shoebox as a possibility... and I think that fits in well with the other information I have. Mary Elizabeth's maiden name was Foster. My tree is a Public one (Hooper family tree) on Ancestry.com, so I hope people are able to see it.

Sandra's information on the James family is mostly known to me. Lillian Newton (nee James) was my grandmother and she and Jack (John Frederick) came to Australia after they retired, in about 1966. My family (my mother, Peggy, was their daughter) followed in 1970.

I think there may be a mis-reading of the date Lilian and Jack went to Canada, as I have their actual Itinerary and passenger list here. They travelled over there in 1958 to visit a daughter who emigrated to Ontario in 1956 (still living). That would make Lilian's age of 56 correct at the time.

According to a relative of Ada Foster (Elizabeth's sister), both Ricardo Picconi and David John James were a taboo subject in the family, but this relative had no idea why. Elizabeth's daughter to Ricardo, Elsie or Eliza, was known of by my grandmother - but she didn't remember her name and said she "ran away from home" at age 17 - and looking for her was what started me off on the whole Family Tree hunt, about 10 years ago. I found that Elsie married a Thomas Arthur Sutton in 1914. Checking the Electoral Rolls (as I couldn't find a death for Elsie Sutton) it seems that they divorced and she went back to her maiden name, under which I did find her death in 1939 in London.

I would think the visits from the Italian side of the family from Canada (to Edith, Ada Puckett's daughter and family) would have been around the 1930s.

I have been piecing together the child William on the 1891 Census, and have found him living with his Uncle (also William, who was married to Henrietta Ross, but she disappeared I know not where!) in a Boarding House in London in the 1911 Census. A friend in the UK found William's birth record in the Gray's Inn Workhouse in 1888 and I have his birth Certificate, on which Elizabeth says she is a "Music Hall Singer!" The workhouse record lists her on entry as a "Prostitute" (quite a shock for our family!) aged 16, and a "Domestic Servant" when she left. Poverty may have been the key here, as Elizabeth's father Edward had left her mother Phoebe Elizabeth (nee Thompson) for another woman a few years before that. No father is listed on either birth or baptism record for William. Still don't know where William was in 1901, but then David James is also "missing" on that Census and Elizabeth lists herself as the "Head."

Very interesting about the passenger list for Gertrude Wales - I had no idea about that one and this means I may have other relatives in Victoria that I'll have to check out.

Yes, Ada Puckett had 3 children, Gertrude (1898), Edith (1906) and Frederick (1902), who worked for the Salvation Army and the family rumour about him is that he nicked off to Canada (after 1911, as I've found him on the UK Census in London) with the proceeds (another Canadian connection!). I haven't found any newspaper reports on that at this stage.

Let me know if you need any more information.
Cheers
Marilyn

Offline lemur41

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Re: Picconi family
« Reply #16 on: Friday 27 December 13 05:09 GMT (UK) »
Hi Marilyn,

Sandra's finds, including the 2 nephews living with Ada & Arthur in 1901 set me off looking a bit further back into Mary Elizabeth's mother Elizabeth.

I noticed on the 1891 that she states born Cambridge, and I think I have found her with the children in 1881

They are living at 4 Berry Street, Clerkenwell, London

Elizabeth age 39 Married Head of household  Occ. Dressmaker born Littleport, Cambridgeshire
Willliam J age 16 son Occ. Groom born London
Edward age 13 son Scholar born Hereford ?- I read as Hereford but wondered if could be Hertford
Mary E age 10 daughter Scholar also born Hereford
Ada age 7 daughter born London

So the 2 nephews living with Ada in 1901 could be sons of either William or Edward.

I did try to find the marriage of Elizabeth to Albert Edward Foster, didn't succeed, probably because we also didn't know that her full name was Phoebe Elizabeth

Offline *Sandra*

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Re: Picconi family
« Reply #17 on: Friday 27 December 13 07:45 GMT (UK) »

So the 2 nephews living with Ada in 1901 could be sons of either William or Edward.



Charles and John Albert were sons of William J Foster and Henrietta Ellen Ross.

With reference to David John James missing on the 1901 census, have you explored the military angle ?  Being a soldier he could have been on duty abroad perhaps ?

Sandra
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