McNAMEE Christopher John - was he a convict???

[Australia Bound]

1.  "Where did you find the second forename of John for Christopher?"

The middle name of "John" came from the death records of 2 of Christopher and Mary's children.

     -  son William died at Bundarra in 1912, his father is listed as "John" and mother as "Mary".  William's birth record in 1846 has his father as "Christopher" and mother as "Mary"
     -  daughter Sarah Ready (married name) died at Bundarra in 1885, her father is listed as "Christopher J".  Can't find a birth record for Sarah.

2.  " Christopher MacNamee (sic), 75
Inquest held 20 June 1888, by W W Fraser at Bundarra, district of Armidale
Date of death: 31 May 1888
Born Ireland, Died Bundarra
Cause of Death: Inflammation of the kidneys and bladder brought on from exposure.
Cash or property owned by deceased: Nil."

Judith, re the inquest information.  I have scanned Trove and found a record of a "fatal buggy accident" reported on 1st June 1888, where the man and his wife were left to lie in the open overnight and he subsequently died.  What is curious is the man's surname of "RYAN" in the newspaper article and he is 75 yrs old.  Remember I found that convict record for "Christopher Ryan" in 1836.   Just interesting.   

Is there anymore information available anywhere about that inquest?



AB

[judb]

Good find on TROVE, AB.  I believe the report of the accident is that of Christopher McNAMEE.

From the inquest, compared with the newspaper account:
Death occurred on 31 May at Bundarra- exact match.
Cause of death - kidney and bladder inflammation brought on by exposure which matches the account of them being out in the open overnight after the accident.  No mention in the inquest of a broken hip.

There is only one other inquest held on the same day in the same general area by W W Fraser; it's for a Samuel Henry EAGLES (died of overdose of opium  ) and was held at Tingha, district of Inverell.  I cannot see an inquest for any possible person with the RYAN surname in 1888.  There would hardly have been two buggy deaths in Bundarra on the same day.

Which leads to further speculation, of course. 

• Is Christopher John McNAMEE also using the name RYAN and thus was he the convict who came in 1836 or  the convict later called John McNAMEE,who seems to have been charged and convicted using the name Christopher?
  
  Did Mary come as a convict and wife of Christopher in 1837, or is she another person altogether?

Do you have Mary's death cert?  If so could you please transcribe all of it?  Do any of the birth certs give the birthplace or a date of marriage for the parents?

This search is very intriguing, and beats watching cricket or tennis 

Judith


 

[judb]

Records for Christopher RYAN, b abt 1806
Arrival: 31 December, 1836 per Earl Grey
Convicted: Limerick, 11 July 1836 for stealing horse; sentence transportation for life.

Convict muster 1837 (HO 10/35) - his 'master' is R A Hunt at Sydney

Printed indents for 1836,
Cannot read or write, Roman Catholic, married, 2 sons, 1 daughter, occ: indoor servant, groom,

Ticket of Leave record 44/2188, dated 12 August, 1844 - with some annotations written across the record:
"Allowed to remain in District of Melbourne."
"Altered Campbelltown, 19 May 1845 per letter 45/4131"
"Altered to Sydney as long as he remains in the employ of Mr James Raymond. 27 August, 1847. 47/5004"
"Obtained a conditional pardon, 49/269 dated 31 Dec 1848"
Also has this statement:
"Per Govr Mac, dated 31 May 1844 on petition of Christopher RYAN, reg no 44/5556 dated 27 May 1844"

Conditional pardon approved 30 June 1848

So there is nothing (such as a place of residence) in these records support a connection - nothing much to discount a connection either, although Christopher RYAN seems to have been in Sydney till 1847 according to the ToL record, by which time Christopher McNa?? is fathering children in the Port Macquarie area.

Judith

(Note to self - NLA has digi newspapers for Inverell which would cover the time of the buggy accident)

    

[majm]

I wonder if a copy of the inquest that Judith found would shed any light on things, such as if he used another name. I was also thinking maybe he used his second name John 

I am not at home at the moment, so I am relying on online sources.

http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/archives-in-brief/archives-in-brief-4

"Inquest papers

Information found within the papers may include particulars relating to the deceased, such as age and locality of death, circumstances surrounding the death, copy of the coroner's findings, names of members of the jury and also names of witnesses and their testimonies. ........

The papers can be a valuable source of information and may include statements from witnesses, police and medical officers. Information may also include a record of personal items found on the deceased and occasionally photographs of the death scene or the victim. For this reason, they may be distressing to the researcher.

If further court action arose out of the inquest, the inquest papers may be filed with the later court papers.

The inquest files are indexed and the indexes are listed above. The files concerning reports of deaths, inquests dispensed with and magisterial inquiries are not indexed. These files are listed in date order. The lists are available in the reading room."

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

We need someone to actually go to the Kingswood reading rooms.   This is not an easy task, there's actually very little public transport, (so they have a car park with lots of spaces marked out) and there's NO canteen (there's a mini fridge for long life milk) and they do have a coffee/tea making area (kettle, coffee powder, tea bags etc).    So, you need to take your own lunch, and leave it in a locker (take a $2 coin which is returned etc).   If you have not been previously, the staff are fantastic, you can get a readers card provided you have ID (eg the drivers licence that you brought with you as you drove there).  They will help you find the list, and if they are not occupied helping others, they may even go the extra step and help further.

For anyone not familiar with Sydney, Kingswood is around an hour by train from Sydney CBD, foot of the Blue Mountains (so it is WEST of Sydney).   It is not exactly an easy option, but once there, it is basically an absolutely fantastic resource with great people and well equipped facilities.   Take a USB thingy, a digital camera, and the usual kit too.   

http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/collection-search

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

NSW SRO has a "new" index (combiningg several older ones)

http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/searchform.aspx?id=65

Could there be THREE chaps named Christopher Ryan .... there's at least two (Earl Grey and Heber)  and there's the John McNAMEE ex the James Pattison of 1830 on that index too, with two CFs

Apologies if I am going over old ground.

I am on borrowed puter equipment, the screen is "this" little.  I am used to dual screens, both being "this"  big....

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

I think there's THREE Christopher Ryan chaps that ought to be on our horizon 

The BDA (a new index, Biographical Database of Australia) has three :

AA   1 x Earl Grey in 1836,
BB   1 x Heber in 1837
CC   1 x Earl Grey in 1837

AA
1837 Muster : 
Age: 30; Occupation/Residence &c, Sydney ; Assigned to R A Hunt

BB
1837 Muster
Age: 19; Occupation/Residence &c: Royal Engineers Dept, Sydney

CC
1837 Muster
Age: 30; Occupation/Residence &c, Sydney, Assigned to Miss Berry


http://www.bda-online.org.au/

Cheers,  JM

[ShaunJ]

Just wondering if any of the BMD records give an indication of C J McNamee's occupation?

[Australia Bound]

To Everyone,

Isn't this just so frustrating!!!!      

I thank you all very sincerely for all your efforts.

To answer a few of the questions that have come up:
    1.  I don't have any idea of Christopher's occupation.  According to the inquest information at the time of his death he didn't leave any assets.     
    2.  Re the Kingswood Reading Rooms  -  I don't live anywhere near there (Qld actually)   
    3.  I don't have any of the BDM certificates for Christopher or his wife Mary     
    4.  I did put a post on the Ireland Board to see if anybody could track down a marriage for me, but nothing has turned up yet.     
 
There is so much conflicting information and nothing seems to tie in together nicely.  What  we do know for sure though is that Christopher and Mary were in the Port Macquarie area since at least 1844 (maybe even earlier) when their daughter Jane was born.  Maybe Christopher and Mary weren't convicts at all? 

I think to move forward what we need is:
    -  to get our hands on more of the inquest information
    -  someone who visits the Kingswood Reading Rooms to do some research for us there
    -  I will have to save up and try and think about getting death certificates for Christopher and Mary to see if they can shed any light, or even the Birth certificates of a couple of their children.

I welcome any further information anybody can find.

Kind regards, AB