Author Topic: WROTHAM Parish Registers look-up request -- WILLIAMS  (Read 2631 times)

Offline jestina_d

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WROTHAM Parish Registers look-up request -- WILLIAMS
« on: Wednesday 22 January 14 12:21 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

I am researching the family of John Williams who left Wrotham in Kent in late 1851 and arrived in South Australia in February 1852.

He migrated with most of his large family -- his second wife, Sarah, nee Waitman/Waiteman/Wakeman, their six children, Charles, Emma, Eliza, Jabez, Bertha, and Mercy (aged 12 down to one year), three sons from his first marriage, John Jnr (17), Thomas (16), and William (24), as well as William's wife, Matilda (nee Herrion, AKA Mary Matilda, 21) and their infant son John. 

According to oral history another son, James, born in about 1829, stayed behind in Kent when his family migrated, but migrated two years later with his bride, Mary Ann Chapman.

Also according to oral history, there were also two daughters from the first marriage, but their names are not known.  It has been suggested that they were cared for outside the family after their mother died.

Because John and Sarah were married in 1837 I have found their marriage and the births of all six children on the BDM indexes.  I have also found the family on the 1841 and 51 censuses, but I have been struggling for details prior to when civil registrations began in 1837.  I have found the baptisms for John Jnr and Thomas on FamilySearch.com (which gave me their mother's name, Elizabeth Bennett) but nothing else.

Would someone kindly be able to look up the WROTHAM Parish registers for:

the baptisms of:
  • John Williams, born c.1807;
    Elizabeth Bennett;
    Sarah Waitman, born c.1812;
    William Williams, born c.1826;
    James Williams, born c.1829;
    the alleged daughters of John and Elizabeth
;

Also the marriage (c.1825) of John Williams & Elizabeth Bennett; and

the burial of Elizabeth William (nee Bennett).

Cheers,
Jestina

Offline t mo

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Re: WROTHAM Parish Registers look-up request -- WILLIAMS
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 22 January 14 14:12 GMT (UK) »
hi jestina
found these bpt,s for
john Williams  3jul 1802  father john mother Elizabeth  -  family history soc 6498 ref no
john Williams 3 jul 1805  father james mother Elizabeth   family history soc 6612

Elizabeth Bennett 24 mar 1805  father Thomas  mother sarah  family history soc 6590
Elizabeth Bennett 18 mar 1810  father Robert mother ann family history soc 6766

all 4 bpt,s at wrotham 
can,t find any of the other names you seek .
regards
trevor
morters-cambs-norfolk   clements london    copas newington
went colchester essex    goodey essex -suffolk

Offline jestina_d

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Re: WROTHAM Parish Registers look-up request -- WILLIAMS
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 22 January 14 23:21 GMT (UK) »
Thank you very much Trevor. 

These early 19th-century people didn't like to make things easy for us, did they? 

I have one more question, please: when you say, for example after the first John, "family history soc 6498 ref no", is that the Kent Family History Society, or Wrotham FHS, or something else? 

Thanks again for your help. 

Cheers,
Jestina


Offline warncoort

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Re: WROTHAM Parish Registers look-up request -- WILLIAMS
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 23 January 14 09:41 GMT (UK) »
Unpublished IGI batches here may help.
http://www.archersoftware.co.uk/igi/
Butcher Westmorland and Lancashire
Barton Westmorland and Yorkshire
Trethowan,Reeves Middlesex
Halsall,Green,Charters,Chatterton Lancashire
Smith, Moger, Maxfield Wiltshire
Woods,Speechley and Coles Huntingdonshire
Gibson,Blanks,Monk,Fokes Essex

Offline t mo

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Re: WROTHAM Parish Registers look-up request -- WILLIAMS
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 23 January 14 14:12 GMT (UK) »
hi jestina
sorry should have said they were supplied by kent fhs so would be worthwhile contacting them in case they can help you.
best wishes
trevor

ps your right they didn,t make it easy for us to find them the parish records are a blessing and a curse sometimes   ;D  happy hunting  ;)
morters-cambs-norfolk   clements london    copas newington
went colchester essex    goodey essex -suffolk

Offline jestina_d

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Re: WROTHAM Parish Registers look-up request -- WILLIAMS
« Reply #5 on: Friday 24 January 14 23:48 GMT (UK) »
Thank you Warncoort -- although it has not helped in this particular case, this is clearly a very handy source to know about -- thank you for drawing my attention to it. 

Thank you Trevor.  I will get in touch with Kent FHS.  I contacted the County Administrator, Kent OPC Project, but she has told me that "Wrotham is not planned for transcription by us any time soon", so it looks as though it asking Kent FHS or putting it on the "back burner" for the foreseeable.  Thanks for your help and advice.

Cheers,
Jestina

Offline newsdoctor

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Re: WROTHAM Parish Registers look-up request -- WILLIAMS
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 24 August 17 03:56 BST (UK) »
Hi Jestina,

I'm a decendant of John and Sarah Williams.  I have been creating a small family tree for the use of my immediate family based on the publications "Hilda Coad and Richard Williams" and "The Family History of Ricahrd and James Pomery"which is full of photographs including that of John's son Charles.

You are no doubt aware of these histories.  I've also been trying to find details about the ship Caucasian.  No photos unfortunately and it appears it had a short life, abandoned in Mauritius.

I was most interested in your post giving extra detail about John and Sarah in Kent as both of the above publications only mention that he was born in Kent but counted himself a Welshman.

I would be most interested if you've been able gleen anymore information about John.' I guess having one of the most common surnames in the world makes it difficult for a reseacher such as yourself.

Kind regards

John Williams Adelaide Australia

Offline jestina_d

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Re: WROTHAM Parish Registers look-up request -- WILLIAMS
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 26 August 17 07:26 BST (UK) »
Hi John,

I too am in Adelaide, but I am not actually a member of the Williams family.  My aunt married a Williams, and two generations later, so did my niece.  My niece's father-in-law assured me that they were related, but my curiosity was piqued, and I decided to investigate.  It turns out that my aunt's husband was descended from Jabez Williams, the fourth child of John Williams and his second wife, Sarah Waitman, while my niece's husband is a descendant of James Williams, the second son of John Williams and his first wife, Elizabeth Bennett. 

Because it's not my own family I don't have all the details and relationships in my head and it's a long time since I have looked at it, so I need to get it sorted in my mind.

The 1851 UK Census (taken on the night of 30 March 1851), shows that John Williams was born c.1805 in Wrotham, Kent.  (ref: UK Census 1851, Public Record Office Reference HO107, Piece 1612, Folio 569, Page 12, Registration District: Malling, Civil Parish: Wrotham, Address: Beech Wood Platt, Crouch, Wrotham, County: Kent.) 

However, John’s great great grand-daughter, Elva Dickinson, nee Williams, researched the Williams Family History and says that John was born at Brynmrwr, Monmouth, Wales, but she does not give her source for this information.  Two trees on RootsWeb.com also state that he has born in 1807 in Monmouthshire, Wales, but neither gives a source. 

Williams is usually regarded as a Welsh surname, and I remember starting to suspect that John's father might have moved from Wales to Kent, but that's not much help because I can't remember how or why I thought that, and can't see that I made any notes about it (which indicates that is was a suspicion rather than a firm belief).

It is important to note that Elva's approach to family history research is very different from mine.  The huge tree she put together was created by gathering information and oral history from family members.  I was able to borrow a copy of her tree (in hard copy), and although I found it to be an incredibly useful guide, I have included nothing in mine that cannot be verified by primary sources.

I have notes that two baby boys named John Williams were baptised at Wrotham around the right time to be "our" John:
one, the son of John and Elizabeth, on 3 July 1802, (source: http://www.findmypast.co.uk – Parish Records Collection baptism – Record Source: Wrotham baptisms 1558-1812; Kent FHS Ref: 6498; Record source: Kent Baptisms; Data provider: Kent Family History Society), and
the other, the son of James and Elizabeth, on 10 November 1805 (source: http://www.findmypast.co.uk – Parish Records Collection baptism – Record Source: Wrotham baptisms 1558-1812; Kent FHS Ref: 6612; Record source: Kent Baptisms; Data provider: Kent Family History Society). 

Of the two, this second one seems somewhat more likely to be "our" John, but the two births are too close together for the baptism records alone to tell us which is the right one.  It is also possible that "our" John Williams was baptised somewhere else; or that the relevant baptism register is not currently available online; or that it has been lost, damaged or destroyed in the two centuries since John was born.

I also have a question: do you know what happened to John's third and fourth sons, John, born c.1832, and Thomas, born 1835?  I have been able to find baptism records for both (at Borough Green Baptist, Wrotham, Kent), but I can find nothing after their arrival in SA with most of the rest of their family aboard the "Caucasian" (Source: http://www.archives.sa.gov.au/sites/default/files/GRG35_48_1_52-4_Caucasian.pdf)   

cheers,
Jestina

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Re: WROTHAM Parish Registers look-up request -- WILLIAMS
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 27 August 17 02:00 BST (UK) »
Hi Jestina,

Thank you very much for your detailed and informative reply. 

It seems John's birthplace remains a mystery.  Both the Pomery and Coad/Richard Williams histories state that while John was thought to have been born in Kent, he always counted himself a Welshman. My late grandmother (a Dickinson) also thought he was Welsh, but I suspect she may have used the above family trees as a source.   I think most people with the name Williams automatically think they have Welsh heritage!

I'm the son of Horace John Williams, the son of Horace Edgar Williams, the son of Arthur James Williams, the son of Charles Williams, the son of John Williams.  I'm originally from Nhill in Victoria near where Charles and his family settled after coming to Australia on the Caucasian.

I cannot help you with information about John's third and fourth sons.  I must admit that my research is very narrow and is limited to providing a simply family tree for younger family members, given that most of them don't have a great attention span for detail these days.  "Who do you think you are" needs to be a 30 second sound bite!

Once again thank you for your information which I will study.

Cheers

John Williams Linden Park