Author Topic: is this too much of a stretch  (Read 2992 times)

Offline Jennaya

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Re: is this too much of a stretch
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 30 January 14 08:09 GMT (UK) »
Hi Meggles

Do you have Roy Elliott's death certificate? I was wondering what year of birth was on it.

Regards
Jennaya

Offline majm

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Re: is this too much of a stretch
« Reply #10 on: Friday 31 January 14 01:05 GMT (UK) »
Here are my comments based on a NSW BDM certificate for a birth in 1910 in Ultimo (Sydney) NSW.  As the male person is STILL living, and as I respect the right of NSW residents to their lawful expectation to privacy, I do NOT include identifiying information.    This is from a real deal certificate, it is HANDWRITTEN and an image from the REGISTER held at the NSW BDM.  The cert  is on my lap in front of me at this minute.  There are several different hands showing on the certificate.   There’s the NSW BDM clerk, and there’s the Deputy Registrar, and there’s the handwriting of the baby’s mother.   I well recognise HER signature.  I have many examples of her hand.   I have good memories of lots of conversations with her. 

I can clearly read each of the separate columns
1.   the local registrar’s line number. (this is NOT the NSW BDM reference no.)
2.   full date of birth (day, month, year, then day of week)
3.   address where baby was born (name of the house, house number, street address, (no city/town/suburb/village/locality mentioned)    and followed by the words “not present’
4.   Male
5.   Father’s full name (all his given names, followed by his surname), his then occupation, his then age, and his place of birth.  (place of birth is not as detailed, it just gives the street in Sydney where he was born and NOT the house name/number.)
6.   Then the date of the marriage (full date, but not day of week), and the place (on this document it reads “Sydney” ) and Previous issue (of the marriage) …  it shows the names and ages of the older siblings still alive at that time.  These are listed in chronological order.  It then continues and shows the number of male siblings followed by the number of female siblings  already deceased
7.   Mother’s names and maiden surname, and her age and her birthplace.   Like the baby’s father, this mum was also born in Sydney.
8.   The next column is for the INFORMANT, and in my instance, this section has the informant’s SIGNATURE, and relationship and address.   So, I can clearly see the signature of the MOTHER and that her address is exactly the same as that given for the place of birth.
9.   Then there’s the column for WITNESS and there’s provision for three witnesses.    Names are provided for witness (2) and (3).  Witness (1) has NOT any entry next to it.   Witnesses (2) and (3) were females (listed as Mrs ………) and IF I recall correctly, my earlier research showed these to be locals, one a midwife.
10.   The next column is the admin column for the formal certification, ie the deputy registrar’s signature, the date, the location etc.
11.   Then there is the next column where the Registrar can add a name to his register  (In my instance this is blank).
So there’s a great deal of IDENTIFYING information available on NSW BDM birth certs, and this is one of the reasons that these records are on restricted access for the first one *** HUNDRED years.  I am concerned about the depth of information displayed in the Original Post,  I have asked but our OP has not removed the name of the person born 1911.   

I am quite sure that at Rchat we ought not to name persons whom we cannot confirm are already deceased.   Clearly someone born in 1911 may well be deceased, BUT WHAT IF THEY ARE NOT….  Surely we ought to be careful in what information we provide about anyone who may well be alive.     What if the baby born 1911 is NOT the elusive son of Meggles  Jessie…..   What if there were two separate chaps, one married to Minnie in 1907  and one married to Jessie in 1907.  What if the chap deserted Jessie and fled NSW, or fled Australia, and so perhaps died interstate or in a different country.  What if he enlisted in a different country and went off to be Killed in Action during The Great War.

May I please ask for the removal of the NAME of the baby born 1911.   To the best of my knowledge I am NOT related to any person named in this thread, but I am related to a chap born in 1910 who does follow my threads, and he is quite distressed to read that there are people interested in family history who do not respect the privacy of the living. 

Once I have posted this thread, I will of course immediately report myself to a moderator.   I can see that the OP is again online.   

Cheers,  JM  *** EDIT to add HUNDRED   ::) noting that at least one chap born in 1910 has read this thread carefully and noticed JM left out a very important word.  ::)
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Offline meggles

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Re: is this too much of a stretch
« Reply #11 on: Friday 31 January 14 01:12 GMT (UK) »
Hi  - I don't have his death cert. He died in 1997 so unable to get it myself and his daughter has remarried and  I have lost contact with her with no way to find her so far .................
death notice has him at 84 which has him born in 1912 (april death - July birthday)
But he was never sure of his right birth year - so that is why i think 1911 is possible.
I have hired a reseracher to look at the records from all of Jessie May Chamberlain's children's births around this time at the Mitchell Library - and also of this May Chambers, the records should tell where she went after her discharge from the asylum and hopefully a little bit more info.
cheers
Meggles
Harris - Denbury Devon
Wotton - Ideford Devon
Chamberlain - Kent
Burgess - Sussex
Savage - South Australia
Wilks - South Australia
Horrigan - South Australia
Hodgson - Lancashire
Martin - St Stithians, Cornwall
Mathers - Liverpool
Riley/Royle - Lancashire

Offline majm

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Re: is this too much of a stretch
« Reply #12 on: Friday 31 January 14 01:16 GMT (UK) »
But the name of the baby born 1911 is displaying on your thread and you have NOT confirmed he is no longer living...   You put his name there, and all his identifying info from his birth cert's transcription.

He may well be YOUR Jessie's baby,  BUT you have not yet established that,  Transcriptions always carry the reminder that they are not "legal" proof.

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.


Offline Jennaya

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Re: is this too much of a stretch
« Reply #13 on: Friday 31 January 14 07:17 GMT (UK) »
Hi  - I don't have his death cert. He died in 1997 so unable to get it myself and his daughter has remarried and  I have lost contact with her with no way to find her so far .................
death notice has him at 84 which has him born in 1912 (april death - July birthday)
But he was never sure of his right birth year - so that is why i think 1911 is possible.
I have hired a reseracher to look at the records from all of Jessie May Chamberlain's children's births around this time at the Mitchell Library - and also of this May Chambers, the records should tell where she went after her discharge from the asylum and hopefully a little bit more info.
cheers
Meggles


That's OK, I didn't realise that he had lived for that long.

Offline meggles

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Re: is this too much of a stretch - COMPLETED thank you everyone :)
« Reply #14 on: Friday 31 January 14 11:05 GMT (UK) »
Hi I am not sure what you mean about reporting yourself to a moderator? have you done something wrong?
You are very lucky to have someone over the age of 100 to be able to help you with your research (born 1910 - so just about 104) this is very rare and I am a little bit jealous (did you know that there is only about 620 people living in Australia at this age - and 1 in 10 of these are female.
I would imagine that your male relative could tell you many wonderful stories about his life.
As you are probably aware I have not been convinced that your ideas have been right in regards to my research - but I do appreciate the fact that you are trying to help - I see by your posts that you do try to help a lot of people (again I envy this - I wish I had the time to do this)
As it happens a box of old papers that I had inherited has finally turned up   - and although I have not had time as yet to go through everything, I have seen enough to know that my theories in regards to Jessie, George and Roy were all correct :) 
(so thank you to everyone else for your time and effort in helping me also)

And sorry I seem to have wasted your time  - and I am sorry to think that I have upset a great great relative of yours -But as he does seem so concerned -  I am hoping that he is also aware that by you  putting any information on this site or any other site about your family (even the dead ones) it could potentially breach privacy for him and all your relatives - as it would take very little effort to look at all your posts, your profile and a few SMH death notices to trace your family all the way down. 

Happy Hunting
cheers
Meggles
 
 



Harris - Denbury Devon
Wotton - Ideford Devon
Chamberlain - Kent
Burgess - Sussex
Savage - South Australia
Wilks - South Australia
Horrigan - South Australia
Hodgson - Lancashire
Martin - St Stithians, Cornwall
Mathers - Liverpool
Riley/Royle - Lancashire

Offline majm

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Re: is this too much of a stretch - COMPLETED thank you everyone :)
« Reply #15 on: Friday 31 January 14 12:03 GMT (UK) »
I reported to the moderator so they could attend to the edit. I have no understanding of your last para.

Thanks Moderator for the edit

   I suspect the OP is confused

JM



 
Hi I am not sure what you mean about reporting yourself to a moderator? have you done something wrong?
You are very lucky to have someone over the age of 100 to be able to help you with your research (born 1910 - so just about 104) this is very rare and I am a little bit jealous (did you know that there is only about 620 people living in Australia at this age - and 1 in 10 of these are female.
I would imagine that your male relative could tell you many wonderful stories about his life.
As you are probably aware I have not been convinced that your ideas have been right in regards to my research - but I do appreciate the fact that you are trying to help - I see by your posts that you do try to help a lot of people (again I envy this - I wish I had the time to do this)
As it happens a box of old papers that I had inherited has finally turned up   - and although I have not had time as yet to go through everything, I have seen enough to know that my theories in regards to Jessie, George and Roy were all correct :) 
(so thank you to everyone else for your time and effort in helping me also)

And sorry I seem to have wasted your time  - and I am sorry to think that I have upset a great great relative of yours -But as he does seem so concerned -  I am hoping that he is also aware that by you  putting any information on this site or any other site about your family (even the dead ones) it could potentially breach privacy for him and all your relatives - as it would take very little effort to look at all your posts, your profile and a few SMH death notices to trace your family all the way down. 

Happy Hunting
cheers
Meggles
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Offline majm

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Re: is this too much of a stretch - COMPLETED thank you everyone :)
« Reply #16 on: Monday 03 February 14 02:23 GMT (UK) »
You are very lucky to have someone over the age of 100 to be able to help you with your research (born 1910 - so just about 104) this is very rare and I am a little bit jealous (did you know that there is only about 620 people living in Australia at this age - and 1 in 10 of these are female.

Yes, Uncle (not great Uncle, and not great great Uncle, just plain ordinary UNCLE, although I think he is a great rellie rather than a rare one) and his living siblings and living first cousins are in a competition with each other to see who gets to attend all their funerals.   Yes, there's been a few funerals attended and there's several more that are all fully planned, except for the date !

"Aged 100 years and over

In the 12 months to 30 June 2010, the number of people aged 100 years and over increased by 580 people (18.2%) to reach 3,700. Over the past two decades, the number of centenarians increased by 185%, compared with a total population growth of 30.9% over the same period. Increased life expectancy for both males and females has contributed to this rise. There were more than three times as many females (2,900) than males (800) in this age group at 30 June 2010 which reflects the higher life expectancy at birth for females compared with males."


http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/3201.0

Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Offline meggles

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Re: is this too much of a stretch
« Reply #17 on: Monday 03 February 14 04:51 GMT (UK) »
Sorry I am unsure how to close this post - I have already said that it is completed.
George Henry Davis married twice - firstly Minnie Croft then Jessie Chamberlain.
Roy Davis born 1911 both to a May Chambers and George Davis was the Roy I was looking For.
I thought that I had already said all this - but probably need to be clearer.

Sorry - My figures were based on your relatives age of 104 not 100 - again I was not clear.
b
Harris - Denbury Devon
Wotton - Ideford Devon
Chamberlain - Kent
Burgess - Sussex
Savage - South Australia
Wilks - South Australia
Horrigan - South Australia
Hodgson - Lancashire
Martin - St Stithians, Cornwall
Mathers - Liverpool
Riley/Royle - Lancashire