Looking for death records for John Ferries and Duncan McKenzie

[MonicaL]

Hi Don

I think that is the one that you mentioned earlier and Julie says she has now reviewed, with the details both of you have added.

Julie, I think this is John Eddie in 1861, just before his marriage a few months later:

Ann Mcintyre 40
Janet Mcintyre 12
John Mcintyre 10
Ann Mcintyre 8
Archibald Mcintyre 6
John Addie 43 Ship Carpenter boarder b. Dysart Fife
Brakan Addie 33 boarder b. Dundee, loffberrey (?Broughty Ferry). She shows as female on the transcript. Could this be his wife??? Would have to have died anon for him to marry Ellen by August.... I also don't have to mention about spelling variations: Eadie/Eddie/Addie etc...~!

Address: 1 Williams St, Greenock Middle

Monica

[MonicaL]

Julie, when do you have the marriage for John Eddie to Ellen?

I think the 1861 census entry I posted is as follows:

A John Eddie married a Barbara Smith in 1852 in Angus https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTVT-Q6G

No children from the marriage that I can see on Family Search - except perhaps this one post 1855 where the family surname may have been mistranscribed https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQ4F-KYM

Barbara Smith/Eddie died on October 26th (I think on day) in 1861. Wife of John Eddie, a ship's carpenter, living at 1 Highland Close Greenock. Her parents, Alexander Smith, a mason and Jane Ritchie. John husband reported the death.

Monica

[MonicaL]

Ahh...marriage for Helen and John in 1862 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYQC-J43 Unusually for this time, she showed under her married surname rather than maiden name.

So the above, with details of a Barbara Smith, could fit.

Monica

[Genie24]

Sorry Don and Monica, I didn't realise you had been posting replies as I didn't get the usual e-mails to notify me.
Yes Don the death record was the one you found for me. I had looked at it before but dismissed it as age and parents weren't correct. It turns out that it was my tree that was wrong. The address at time of death confirms it.
Monica the ages of both Duncan and John Eadie seem to match. John's matches his age at marriage and death and Duncan's matches the 1851 census (if it is him) and age at death.
I have now found all of the birth records for Ellen's children both to Duncan and John Eadie. I did this by leaving out the mother's name in the search. I was hoping her first child John's birth record in Greenock would show a name and occupation of father. However, it is pre 1855 so just shows name. The next two children Isabella and Daniel were born in Dumbarton. Maybe he served his apprenticeship there. The rest are born in Greenock either in Highland Close or Broad Close. I was really hoping to find Ellen and Duncan's marriage. I have it on Family search 1850  but not on Scotland's People. I am puzzled about this. That may have shown his occupation and parent's names. The records have revealed a few things. I did look at the witnesses on the Eadie marriage but it meant nothing until now. I had already found evidence that Isabella McFarlane was a Dunyon so was her sister. I found a Rose Ann Dunyon, Matthew Dunyon and Elizabeth Dunyon on Familysearch and thought they too could be siblings. I am still working on Matthew but Rose Ann and Elizabeth I think may be cousins. or related in some way. On Ellen and John's marriage record one of their witnesses was Henry Bonner. He married Rose Ann Dunyon in 1861. They were living at 3 Broad Close. On John's (first child) birth record Elizabeth Dinnan was sponsor. Rose Ann's parents were John and Margaret Dunning and Elizabeth's were Patrick Dunning and Sarah Docherty. Ellen and Isabella's were Peter Dunyon and Sarah Rafferty (crossed out) Docherty .  I feel certain that Dunning is the correct spelling as it was passed down to Ellen's grandaughter Ellen Dunning Ferries. Elizabeth also married in 1861 and lived at 4 Highland Close right next door to where Duncan McKenzie died.
I am absolutely delighted that you found a marriage for John Eadie to his first wife. Her address at time of death 1 Highland Close suggests that Ellen moved in with him after their marriage. The possible census record sounds correct. I have seen a few mis-transcriptions on Familysearch so Addie and Caddie are feasible. It shows his wife was 10 years younger than him, The address - William Street is where my great X 2 grandparents were living on one of the censuses. I need to get a Greenock map which shows the old streets. I have one but it is Greenock West. I need Greenock East.
Another strange thing. I found one of the daughters of Rose Ann and Henry Bonner - Catherine Bonner on the 1881 census visiting a family at 3 Cameron's Court. Another visitor was a John Connell!!! He was a Labourer in a boatyard and born in Ireland about 1842 so a lot younger than Ellen but not impossible. She was also visiting a friend on the 1881 census. May be a clue to her third husband. I am having to do quite a bit of adjustment to my tree.
I appreciate your help. You have really helped me to break down the brick walls. Considering I was told by a cousin when I first started researching that Ellen (my great X 3 grandmother )was dead at the time of her daughter's marriage in 1875, I now seem to know all about her!
Julie

[MonicaL]

...I was really hoping to find Ellen and Duncan's marriage. I have it on Family search 1850  but not on Scotland's People. I am puzzled about this. That may have shown his occupation and parent's names....

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYQZ-3QX this is the marriage isn't it? There is a marriage showing in the OPRs on SP. I searched for a marriage for a Helen Dunnan and a Duncan Mckenzie and it does seem to show on SP with the matching details from FS.

I wouldn't hold out much hope that the OPR entry will be much more than a one liner with just their names sadly. At best, you may get the bride's father's name 

I am not good with maps for Greenock. From NLS though, there is this one from 1857  http://maps.nls.uk/view/74415991 Not sure if this help you now.

Monica

[Genie24]

Hi Monica! Yes you are right it is there. I don't know why I didn't find it. I think I was just certain it would be in the catholic registers and I should have used the spelling on Familysearch. I didn't use it  I used the name variant and other options.  Obviously this is something you just get better at as you go along. I agree, I don't think there will be any extra details that would help me further. I will look at it though soon. I think I have spent enough on credits this week!!! You found a death for Barbara Eadie (Smith). The address proves it was John's wife. Did the record show the cause of death?
Thank you for the map. It shows some of the streets my ancestors lived in: Buccleugh, Vennel, Cowgate, Shaw, Sugarhouse Lane etc. I just wanted to see where these streets were in relation to each other. I am going to order another old Alan Godfrey map.
You have shown that with  a little help and determination the seemingly impossible is possible. I am so grateful.
I am now going to try and concentrate on Ellen's family from Ireland. I am assuming they came in the potato famine. Did they come as young adults without their parents or did they come too? If they came as children they may show on the 1841 census but after that not much chance. I will try on the immigration records. Irish records are hard to find. I have a few to trace.
My biggest challenge was one of my great, great, grandfather who was born in Sweden. Once again someone from this forum, who lives in Sweden saw my plight and looked at the Swedish records for me. He helped me trace back to the mid 1700s.
I have a lot of information now to help me get further.
Julie

[MonicaL]

Julie, you are so enjoying this all...and that is what this research is all about...sheer passion and obsession!

You won't find anything on immigration type records from Ireland to the mainland. At that time, the whole of Ireland and mainland UK was one country. People just hopped on boats to get around and no records to cover that.

My main Tulley line came over from Ireland from the early 1850s. Maybe concentrate on what you have found so far in Scotland for possible Dunning family for Helen...and from there, branch out back to Ireland armed with more possible names.

Monica

[MonicaL]

Post getting long  which is a good thing 

Can you perhaps do a little summary of the possible Dunning family/relatives you have found so far for Helen?

Monica

[Genie24]

Yes you are right about the passion and obsession. My family have no interest whatsoever in my findings and think I am completely nuts. I have got back quite far with many lines in my tree but it is the personal lives I am most interested in. I find it very fulfilling to find out about my past. It makes everything make sense.
Good advice about the Irish element. It is clear you have a lot more experience than me,
What I have so far re possible family of Ellen (g.g.g.grandmother)
Confirmed sister Isabella Dunyon (Dunning) born around 1832. If born same place as Ellen this would be Londonderry. Same parents as Ellen - Peter Danion (Dunning) and Sarah Docherty. Married Andrew McFarlane (b.1833 Stirling - before 1899) Isabella was a widow when she died. You found the link to her death record which proves the relationship. They had at least 4 children:
Sarah 1851 (on 1851 and 1861 censuses)
Matthew - 13th May 1864 (long gap maybe more in between)
Andrew - 1st October 1865
James - 28th March 1870 - All were born in Greenock

Rose Ann Dunyon (Dunning - possible cousin) born around 1826
Parents John and Margaret Dunning (on marriage record)
Married Henry Bonner 8th April 1861 (Henry was witness at Ellen and John's marriage)
Living at 3 Broad Close at time of their marriage. They had at least 6 children:
Mary Ann 26th June 1861
Twins Catherine and Henry - 31st March 1863
Hugh - 7th August 1865
Margaret (1) - 26th April 1867
Margaret (2) - 13 June 1871 - All born Greenock

Elizabeth Dunyon (Dunning) (Sponsor at John McKenzie's baptism)
Parents Patrick Dunning and Sarah Docherty
married John O'Neill 17th June 1861 Greenock - living at 4 Highland Close
Died 21st March 1887 at  62, Vennel Street, Greenock widow of John (Watt Library Greenock Telegraph death announcement)
Had at least 4 children:
Sarah - 10th August 1862
Catherine - 5th Oct 1864
Elizabeth - 7th March 1867 (died 13th May 1902 15 Shaw Street - Watt Library Greenock Telegraph death announcement)
Patrick Edward - 2nd Nov 1868

Also Matthew Dunion (Dunning) Not sure about him. Parents John Dunion and Mary J. Beattie.
Married Helen Kelly 9th July 1854 Greenock. Isabella has a son Matthew. Just thinking about family names.

Apart from Isabella McFarlane (Dunning) and Catherine Bonner (found on 1881 census with John Connell) no census records found yet. All records obtained from Familysearch,  Scotland Select Births and Baptisms,  Scotland Select Marriages, Scotland's People Births, Marriages and Deaths.
I have a lot of work to do!!!
Julie