Looking for my Grandad Frank Horton of Edge Hill

[Ruskie]

Um, slight waste of time looking for Frank b Liverpool, when the OP has a tree specifying his birth in Birmingham. Might have been useful to have the entire story from the beginning. 

[robjones]

Thanks for all your posts. I'll try to answer all the queries. its really good of you to spend time on helping me. Its been a real trouble and I wonder if I'll ever find out. The only family that I can find is from Spout Lane in Walsall, but my Aunt swears my father was born in Liverpool, my dad was a Liverpool fan and everything points to Liverpool.

I have seen the family with Isaac as the father and Frank born in 1900. It doesnt match with a marriage cert from 1915, when he married Elizabeth mcArdle and has his age as 24.

his occupation in 1915 was labourer, living at 26, William Street, Widnes. Father is Walter, who was also a labourer (deceased)

He then remarried on 25th November 1939, to Edith Ethel Jones (nee Claydon) at Eton in Berkshire. His job was as a store keeper in aircraft works. His father was named as William Horton (deceased) a general labourer. The witnesses were a w. Maddern and Amy(?) maddern

I understand he was in the RAMC (Medical Corp) during the first part of the war.

[Blue70]

Hi Rob

If your father was Robert Henry Jones then yes he was born in Liverpool but Frank doesn't appear to have been born in Liverpool but had moved there. Where did you get Isaac or Ike from? I can't see any connection with the Staffordshire Hortons. It's strange that the Frank from Staffordshire's father was a Locksmith but your Frank does not give that occupation on either marriage record.


Blue

[robjones]

Thanks for looking Ruskie. the chap born in Birmingham is my best guess, but its not right. So I could put tell you the whole story if you like....not sure it will help, which is why I omitted it.

My name is Jones, My fathers name is Jones, my grandfathers name is Horton. So that needs explaining I guess.

My grandfather was knocking off a woman called Edith Jones (nee claydon) who was already married, to a chap who worked on a boat named Arthur Jones. Arthur mysteriously dissappeared after he caught Frank & edith together.

In order to maintain Ediths dignity, Frank Horton and Edith Jones kept the childrens name (including my Dad) as Jones. However when he married in 1915 he was a Horton then when they married in 1939, he called himself Horton, but my nan kept the name Jones. So I don't know what is going on, to be honest or who to look for.

Frank horton then dies in 1949, aged 51. So I suppose you may need to know that as well. And that he also lived in various other addresses in Liverpool apparently.

The Birmingham family is the only William Horton with a Frank as a son at dates that match, but when a family member is telling you that your Grandfather was from Liverpool who do you believe?

And that is why I came to this site to ask for help looking for my grandfather, Frank Horton/Jones. 

[robjones]

Thanks Blue

Its all a bit strange to be honest. I've been tying myself in knots over it. Very confusing.

The ike/isaac bit, is a relative recounting a story of how frank would discuss his brother Ike quite a bit. Whether he was older or younger we dont know.

Arthur Jones was married to Edith, but worked away a lot. Frank got Edith pregnant and when Arthur returns from sea, he discovered this and disappeared. I dont think thats the same Arthur who died in Signapore, as I believe he was quite lower down the ranks than that Arthur William, but you could be right.

We can only imagine frank moved into liverpool, but we cant prove it. Which is why my tree mentions him in Birmingham. And the family are adamant he was from Liverpool, lived in the slums. Had a dislike for Catholics yet had a Catholic ceremony for his first wedding?

I was also hoping if an electoral register from 1914-1918 may help? Do you have any experience researching the electoral rolls?

[Blue70]

Rather than electoral rolls we need the 1921 Census to see where the Frank Horton who was then married to Elizabeth McArdle was born. That will settle it. Obviously you'll have to wait several years for that to come out. It looks to me like Frank has given wrong information at both marriages. I think his father was William Horton (Locksmith) and he was born in Staffordshire in 1891.


Blue 

[Blue70]

One tree has a date of birth of 12 October 1891 and place of birth as 9 Spout Lane, Walsall, Staffordshire. There may be other records that exist for your Frank that have his date of birth so you could compare any of these you might find with the Staffordshire date of birth. One such record that includes a date of birth was the 1939 Register:-

http://www.hscic.gov.uk/register-service


Blue

[Ruskie]

Thanks very much for the clarification Rob. Yes, it is a complicated story, but at least now we understand the background. 

I agree with Blue in that it is possible that Frank gave incorrect information at both of his marriages. I understand your need to find out the truth. Sometimes family stories can get mixed up as time passes, but sometimes they can prove to be a good starting point. 

Do you have any elderly family members who may know a little more about Frank and possibly Ike or any other siblings?

[robjones]

Ive tried. We've all tried, but its all dried up really. there aren't many family members still alive to answer the questions and its doubtful that someone who lied a few times in his life would have told his kids the truth anyway.

Thanks for your time though.