Birth records Violet Ford born 1902 st helier

[Jdk1812]

I wonder if anyone can help. My grandmother Emily Margaret Louisa Ford born 30/03/1901and her sister Kathleen May Ford born 6/05/1902 were both born in st helier.Copies of birth certificates held obtained in 1976.
On my grandmas certificate the information shows name of father as Henry James Thornhill (soldier) informant Rosalie Cadiou. The fathers details are later changed to Albion Edgar Ford whom my grandmother believed was her natural father. He is also the father of Kathleen. My grandmother had no knowledge of Thornhill until 1976 and was led to believe that her parents split up (father died) and her mother took her and her father took her sister.
Whilst researching I have discovered that my great grandma has been quite economical with truth and also using other names and dates of births.
Thornhill is appearing on the 1901 census in the Fort regent barracks born South Molton Devon born 1881. I believe he also appears on the 1911 census in South molton living with wife Nellie born Saint martins jersey and Violet Ford step daughter born 1902 st helier. I need to see if a birth is registered for a Violet Ford and who are the parents. Also if there is a recorded death of Kathleen between  May 1902 and April 1911. I have been able to trace both great grandparents on the 1911 census and Kathleen is not with either. Would there also be any other military information as to which infantry were in the barracks in 1901,so I can get some information on Thornhill as I am unable to trace birth Any help would be appreciated.

[CaroleW]

Hi and welcome to Rootschat

informant Rosalie Cadiou.

Was she the mother of both these girls as the only 1901 entry for that name was 70yrs old.  Same in 1891 - she was 61 and no daughter of the same name

[Jdk1812]

Hi, I realise that my message maybe misleading . Although the informant is Rosalie Cadiou she is not my great grandmother. My  great grandmother and the mother of both girls is Georgina Margaret Ford nee Davis . Rosalie was according to the birth certificate prescient at the birth of my grandmother Emily.

Thanks for your reply

Katherine

[Hill]

Hi Katherine

All very strange!

The first think I have done is to look at the birth records and confirm your findings. I have also had access to another set of records for KMF's birth in which is recorded that AEF and GMD were married at St. Helier Parish Church. However a search of the records did not show a marriage (or even one in another Parish).

I have looked for a HJT and GMD marriage and again unable to find one. In talking to the Registrar the thought was that GMD was married to HJT but had separated from him hence when the birth of EMLF was recorded by RC, she assumed HJT was the father.

As for VF, there are no births in any Parish around 1902 +or - a few years for that name. Could KMF and VF be one and the same person?? Seems strange to have two births in the same year!

Have you ever found a marriage for HJT and Nellie. It would be interesting to know what her maiden name was if indeed they ever married. My thinking behind that is because if Nellie was a Ford........

Finally, I can't see a death for KMF.

All very confusing. I think on Thursday I might just go back and check again on the possible marriages.

Stewart

[Jdk1812]

Hi Stewart  thanks for all your help.

I have a copy of the marriage cert between Georgina and Albion which was obtained in 1976. They were married in St Helier on 05/09/1899. Since posting my first message I have now discovered from army records that Albion became known as Albert and I will assume that he may have used this name for whatever reason for the rest of his life. there is a bit of a gap in his army records for the period January 1900 to July 1902 although he was on active service in South Africa. So at the moment it is difficult to see whether he was the father of either girl unless he had leave!
I have also found an Albert living in Wales on the 1911 census married and living with nephews but not a daughter, but I still have to try and verify this somehow.

With regard to Thornhill, it appears that the Thornhill appearing on the 1901 census is Hubert John not Henry James also known as Herb. I also obtained his army record to confirm this and the 1901 census shows his signature as Herb.
Nellie or maybe Ellen might be a Le Huquet, but I have yet to verify this.
So I still have the problem of what has happened to Kathleen and who is Violet Ford and is Thornhill based in Jersey with the militia my Thornhill or not? I would probably think not but I can trace no other at the moment.
If you could find any information on Violet or Kathleen I would be very grateful.

Katherine

[Hill]

Hi Katherine

I've had a look at the marriage certificate for Herbert John Thornhill. I'm on my way out but did you say he was a soldier? On his certificate he's a butcher!

Stewart

[Hill]

I'm back.

Herbert John Thornhill, aged 23 years, married Lizzie Julia Huquet aged 20 years, on 23rd Feb 1903. He was a butcher from Exeter and his father was also (!!) Herbert John Thornhill, a photographer. Lizzie was from St. Martin and a nurse. Her father was John Abraham Le Huquet, a mason. Ref: St Helier Registry Marriages, Jun 1901 to Nov 1908, page 65.

There is no Violet Ford birth from 1901 to 1911.

There is no Kathleen May Ford death from 1901 to 1911.

In talking to the Registrar, she tells me that when a birth was registered, if the the parents are married then the husbands name was put as the father, even if he potentially wasn't.

Have you ever seen a marriage certificate for Violet Ford?

I'll let you pick the bones out of that!

Stewart

[Jdk1812]

Hi Stewart, thanks for all your help I am very grateful.

I will need to continue my search for Kathleen and if Violet is her? My grandmother on her search for her sister in 1976 understood that some jersey records were destroyed in a fire. Do you know if this is true? And would that be a reason as to why a death or birth could not be traced?

With regard to Thornhill I accessed his army record and he was a soldier briefly in the militia at fort regents barracks but was discharged as totally unfit on 15/06/03. His training finished 1902.  It also found him in some newspaper articles in 1908 where he was accused with his wife Nellie of breaking and entering his mothers house. He was discharged. However what was interesting was that in the article he mentioned a first wife and his mother did not like his second wife.  As you say I will need to continue with my search.

thanks again katherine