Thomas HILL - Vic.1857 to NSW 1864

[muzzy bear]

Hi there,

May I please mention that NOT ALL shipping lists have survived.   If your chap arrived in the 1850s, it is possible that you may not ever find the exact details of his arrival.    Afterall, many of the shipping clerks simply quit, and went off to the gold fields too, just like the incoming passengers, crew, and the locals..... 

Have you searched for Tho^s HILL, rather than Thomas HILL as a passenger?   As your Robert Hill did not arrive until decades later, may I suggest that the info about "How Long in the Colonies" from Thomas' death cert,may not be as accurate as you would want it to be.   

Re the 1864 marriage certificate.  (Please do post the name of the clergyman, or at least the denomination)

The bride and the groom provided identifying details about themselves to the clergy (eg where born, their parents names, father's occupation etc).  The clergy recorded that information. So it is first hand information, and should be more reliable than say info from a death cert. 

The NSW BDM may not have received ALL that recorded information.  It is not at all unusual for there to be blanks on the NSW BDM records for the decades 1856-1895, and NSW BDM itself gives you clues as to how to overcome those hurdles on their webpages.    Here is a thread I did up to help RChatters re those blanks... 

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,546609.0.html

Here is part of a statement from the NSW BDM website re those blanks.

""The Registry took this opportunity to request access to the 1856 to 1895 church marriages registers. Some Registry marriage records from these years recorded only the details pertaining to the parties to the marriage. Details of the parents had been left blank although they appeared in the Church registers. These registrations were amended and a notation made in the margin to record the circumstances of the amendment.

The task of reconciling the Early Church Records and amending the marriage registrations was never finalised. The Registry's records from these years are not complete and it can be worthwhile for genealogists to contact the relevant church to find details missing from a marriage certificate....."
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh/bdm_rec.html

You mentioned that the witnesses signatures are hard to decipher.   If you take a snip of a scan of the mc, and upload it to RChat, there's a decipher board that is fantastic ....

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?board=425.0

I have a number of offline hardcopy NSW resources, particularly for the 19th Century.  I am happy to help, but I need more clues from you.

ADD
Here's a link to RChat's Australia Resources Board.  There's child boards for each state/territory.  There's live links to passenger and passenger/crew lists on those boards. 
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?board=399.0

Cheers,  JM

Thanks for info. I have tried with just surname HILL also.
Even if the death cert. was inaccurate, Thomas married in NSW 1864 - 46 years before Robert came out.
I will try that snippet scan of the witnesses and the clergyman's signatures, thanks.
Add following - "rites of the church of England".
I'll be back tomorrow morning - cheers MB

[Neil Todd]

I don't know how deeply you have assessed the passenger lists, but I did so again this morning and from 19 separate Thomas Hill's that arrived between 1842 and 1862 none are your chap. Seems a common name now that I have looked.

Neil

[judb]

Just an aside re his brother Robert H HILL.  I see his arrival and death but NSW BMD index shows his parents as Fredrick and Elizabeth.     Judith

[majm]

Snap Judith ....   

I have been looking at the Unassisted Arrivals to NSW 1842-1855 and matching up the "ships" with the mariners in Au waters images... 

Have you eliminated the "18" year old :
NSW SRO Index to the Unassisted Arrivals NSW 1842-1855
Thos HILL, 18, London Packet, C, 27 Jun 1854, Whaling, Seaman, Sydney, shipped at Sydney… 

http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/indexes-online/indexes-to-immigration-and-shipping-records/index-to-unassisted-immigrants

http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/documents/pastkeys/UAIntro3.pdf

http://mariners.records.nsw.gov.au/1854/06/scan.asp?filename=056lon.gif

http://mariners.records.nsw.gov.au/1854/06/056lon.htm

I cannot actually confirm from the online image that his given name is Thos, but I can see that the transcriber has       The stated Ages for Crew is often considered as a moveable feast.

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

The Gunnedah C of E parish records are likely archived via the Diocese offices.   Here is the link to their website.   May I encourage you to send a brief email enquiry to them, perhaps attaching your NSW BDM certificate, and asking them to advise you about the missing information.   You may need to be patient as it is likely their archives are managed by volunteers who may well be involved in many parish activities for their local congregations, particularly this time of the year.

http://www.armidaleanglicandiocese.com/

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

May I also learn where you have found his nationality?

Aladdin whaling voyager arriving in NSW from Tasmania 1862, but don't know if it's him(nationality Tasmanian).

Answering one of my own questions….

Likely it is from an image of the crew and passenger list for the Aladdin, a barque of 287 tons, of Hobart Town, with Nichols as her Master, into Sydney 8 Sept 1862 after a Whaling Voyage…

Thomas HILL, a Boatsteerer, aged 20 (one of three Boatsteerers on that vessel) of Tasmania.   May I note that other crew were of Isle of Wright, of New York, of North Wales, of Sydney, of Manchester, of London, of Georgia US,  of N Zealand, etc etc etc, so I would expect that 20 year old chap to be of “ Tasmania”, and not of Rochdale, Lancs, England.   There were two other crew who were also  of “Tasmania”.  I would expect the ship's Master to know all the different accents and even the different languages spoken by the crew....

http://mariners.records.nsw.gov.au/1862/09/scan.asp?filename=024ala.gif
http://mariners.records.nsw.gov.au/1862/09/024ala.htm

I am well be wrong, but I think that record is showing that THAT Thomas Hill was of Tasmania, and not of Rochdale, England....   

Cheers,  JM

[Neil Todd]

I had dispensed with that Thos Hill 1854 as he would have been a bit young at 12 to even be a cabin boy, I would have thought JM

But stranger things have happened. my other thought was what would he have done with himself in Sydney as a 12yo, maybe signed back on perhaps to learn his trade as an Engineer Although from my knowlege, scant as it is, no engines were fitted to Packets, aren't they are a strictly sailed vessel

Hmm, read a bit more, hybrids were utilised from the 1850's.
So engines were fitted
Neil

[majm]

Just for a minute consider that the 12 year old in 1854 may have been a strong tall lad, growing taller and stronger by the day ... 

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

NSW Electoral Roll 1870 LIVERPOOL PLAINS

For the (large) police district of Tamworth,

And with the surname HILL:
Daniel, residence, Manilla
Edward, residence, Manilla
Richard, of Bason Creek, residence, near Wallabadah
Thomas, residence, of Boggabri

And with the surname HUNT:
Arthur, residence, Gunnedah
Frederick E, residence, Gunnedah
John Frederick, residence, Gunnedah
John, senior, residence, Gunnedah
Robert, residence, Boggabri
Samuel, residence, Boggabri

NSW ER 1878 LIVERPOOL PLAINS, and for the police district of Gunnedah

Thomas HILL, of Rocky Glen, freehold, Boggabri   (no others surnamed HILL in this section of this roll)

ALL with HUNT :
Arthur H., , residence, Gunnedah
Frederick E, residence, Gunnedah
John Frederick, of Crindle Creek, residence, Goolhi
John, senior, freehold of Gunnedah
Robert Eastway, freehold of Crindle Creek
Samuel, residence, of Garrawilla
John J, residence, of Gunnedah
James, residence, of Gullendaddy

Cheers,  JM