Thomas HILL - Vic.1857 to NSW 1864

[muzzy bear]

It would be really helpful to have all the information on the marriage certificate 1864, better still, an image of the certificate.

FREEBDM
Edward CHADWICK m. Sarah BUCKLEY Sep Q 1850   Rochdale  21 / 613


Robert HILL, at 1918, gives 56 years in NSW for brother Thomas.  If he said 50 I might think he was rounding a number. I would be guided by that information until you know otherwise...only reference you have to the arrival of Thomas in Australia, and no mention of Victoria. Thomas HILL is a very ordinary name, just needs a transcription error for him to be Thomas HALL/HALE  etc. and not to be found in passenger list, if he ever was on a passenger list.

I cannot imagine that he would be sent alone to Australia as a 15 year old to establish a family enterprise?. If he came to Australia at that age I think he was travelling with relatives. If he travelled alone I think he is older than 15 at arrival.

IGA  marriage
Robert HILL m. Hannah CHADWICK  8 Apr 1833  Rochdale, Lancashire, England

From 1851 census, oldest child is Elizabeth b. ~1837. Maybe one or two born before her, and working away from home or married by 1851?  Census 1851 and 1861 name five sons and four daughters to Robert and Hannah......a son named Robert, after father..........should there be a daughter Hannah?

Can you see this family on 1841 census?

Is there a second marriage for Thomas HILL....death notice SMH 8 Jun 1918 has wife Margaret and daughter Ruby 20 Cleveland St.

Hi. Thomas remarried to Margaret Laverty after Elizabeth died in 1896.
I managed to get more info from the M/C - witnesses - Arthur Henry HUNT & Maria STYLES
Officiating minister - T. H. SHAW
Number of M/C - 288 .  Reg # 1864/003130   Thomas - bachelor   Elizabeth - spinster
That is ALL of the information on M/C - I contacted the Anglican Diocese of Gunnedah and they were unable to help as all those records pre-1900 were transferred to Sydney "somewhere".
As for older children - Elizabeth was born 1833/1834 and died 1834.
Joseph was born 1835 but died 1837 - therefor no surviving elders pre-1837
cheers - MB

[Neil Todd]

I believe the young Thomas arrived to take up the position as Engineer on the wool scourer he may have had some prior training in it's operation in England, even at only 15 years old. He could then have worked at this until he moved to NSW where he married in 1862 at Gunnedah. In fact his position at Gunnedah may well have been at the time still working for the same company.

With the family of Chadwicks arriving same time they may have been connected to the Manufacturing somehow? Finding the connection to Edward Chadwick seems a priority? There is no real reason why this family was in England at the time of the 1851 census in fact they could have been in Australia and returned to England.

I am interested though as to why a young Thomas secured a position as a start up Engineer for this wool scourer?

Neil

MODIFIED TO ADD....Muzzy could you cease copying all the posts to your answers it makes the whole thing long and tedious and is unneccesary. TA Neil

[judb]

Neil, if the family recollection is correct then Thomas may not have been the start-up engineer, rather helping with or just looking at the set-up. He is on the immi record as a labourer.   It's a pity that I can't make out his father's occupation on the 1851 census; by 1861 he says he is a book-keeper.

I am not seeing an Edward CHADWICK (that I can be sure of) of the right age on any English site prior to the immigration in 1857.  I note the marriage posted by Wivenhoe and there are others in Lancashire which are possibles - and do we know that Edward CHADWICK and his family were from Lancashire?

Judith

[andycand]

Hi

The occupation of Robert Hill in 1851 census is possibly Schoolmaster. Some of the childrens baptisms are on LancashireOPC, the fathers occupation is Weaver for the first few, then Beer Seller for Thomas, back to Weaver for John Hill in 1844 and finally Schollmaster for Ann Hill in 1847. The later children are not on LancashireOPC.

Whilst the 1857 arrival for the Suffolk fits the age of Thomas there were about 60 registrations a year of the name Thomas Hill around 1842 (and no doubt more not registered) so whilst it is a possibility it is far from probable. I think you need to be cautious about concentrating on this Thomas too much unless you can connect the Chadwick family on the Suffolk to Hannah.

Andy

[Neil Todd]

From the OP.

Anyone help me find info on Thomas HILL from when he landed at Port Phillip Bay on the Suffolk in 1857 as a 15y/o, to marrying Elizabeth HUNT in Gunnedah 1864?
He was born in Rochdale 1842 to Robert HILL & Hannah CHADWICK.
I found a 20y/o Thomas HILL crewman on the Aladdin whaling voyager arriving in NSW from Tasmania 1862, but don't know if it's him(nationality Tasmanian).
Cheers Murray

Maybe we could all get a little more from MURRAY? The dribble of information needs to be turned a little further on and this would save us all going over a lot of family history already in the hands of the OP.

2nd quote from MURRAY
"Thanks Debra & JM - all those details have been noted for reference" Do you mean Murray that all these details are at hand?

Also what someone was doing for a period of 5 years in the early colonial days is practically impossible to find, unless 1. they ran foul of the law or 2 made advertisements in newspapers or 3 passed away or married or had children?

Neil

[judb]

Neil, you are quite correct - it is most unlikely that anything will be found for Thomas prior to his marriage.

However, I think we have established most of the relevant information for Thomas in UK - parents, grandparents, siblings.  There may, or may not, be a connection with the CHADWICK family who arrived on the Suffolk which also carried a Thomas HILL.  I would have thought it unlikely that muzzy would have many more details.  There is very little extra on public trees.

Judith

[Neil Todd]

Hi Judith, No more info....I did try and find a connection back in England, but Edward Chadwicks are a little thick on the ground, the Tom Jones of Lancashire

Will see what Murray thinks?

Neil

[Neil Todd]

Sorry forgot to mention a find that may or may not tie in with this whole saga. On the 1881 census there is a Edward Chadwick in a Workhouse as a pauper widower in Lancashire. His occupation is listed a Screw and Bolt Manufacturer. This as I said earlier may tie him to a Wool Scourer as he would be an Engineer (Engineering Manufacturer). His birth is down as 1825 and age 56 so he is very close to the one on the one on the Suffolk in age?

Neil

[muzzy bear]

Sorry if I've made this thread tedious for you - I'm still trying to get used to using this wonderful site. I want to thank all those who've contributed in attempting to find out how my Thomas HILL got here to Aus. I've resigned myself to the fact that I now have all the information on him that I'm going to get. One thing that bothered me more than others is the fact that right through his married life and up to his death his occupation was for the most part a Real Estate Agent [house agent] - a far cry from the line of an Engineer.
P.S On his son Adam's birth certificate (1879) his occupation was Auctioneer.
cheers MB