german birth certificate

[Lightalma]

Hi,
I have been here before looking for Josephine Trust Meade. Well here I am again. I was speculating that since She was born in Poland but no doubt returned to Berlin while still an infant, She may never have had a birth certificate. She was born in a house in the mountains of Poland, that is all I know.
But did grow up in Berlin. Now She becomes an American through husband 1913. No papers on her I have checked. But then, you would marry and that was it you were an American.
Now She does travel in 1937 and 1939 with german papers. I am wondering if She may have had some kind of german record that She carried which would certainly explain the information on the 2 passenger lists stating born in Berlin 1876.
How can I find this information in Berlin Germany?
thanks for your input.
Dale

[Rena]

There aren't many clues with a surname like "Meade", which I've always thought of as English.    You've got another problem in that the Polish borders have moved over the ages and some regions might have been commonly known under another name.

Do you know what occupation her father had because it seems strange that a man living on a Polish mountain would find a suitable job in a major foreign city.  This causes me to think that perhaps his occupation caused him to travel from what we now know as Germany to a mountain in Poland, or vice versa.

Could her father have worked on the railway and worked his way to Berlin? 

From wikipedia, I see that there was a Silesian Mountain Railway from Görlitz via Lauban (Polish: Lubań) and Hirschberg (Polish: Jelenia Góra) to Waldenburg (Polish: Wałbrzych) was opened in 1867 and extended to Glatz (Polish: Kłodzko) in 1880.  It looks like that railway linked up with the Poznan Railway which went to Berlin.   
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rail_transport_in_Poland

From wikipedia:  Silesia was originally a Polish province that became a possession of the Bohemian crown in 1335, passed with that crown to the Austrian Habsburgs in 1526, was taken by Prussia in 1742, and was returned to Poland in 1945. Silesia consists largely of the basin of the upper and middle Oder River, which flows from southeast to northwest. The region is bounded by the Sudeten mountains to the southwest, by the Beskid range to the south, and by the Kraków-Wieluń plateau to the northeast. Silesia is now divided into several Polish provinces


Good luck
     

[Lightalma]

I am sorry I am not more clear. I am looking for Josephine Gronlund born of Adolph Gronlund, he was born in Stockholm Sweden. 1844 He married a polish girl Bronislawa Aman in Plock Poland 1869.
Josephine was born when her mother Bronislawa went to her mother's house in poland in the mountains to give birth. Josephine born 1886. then speculation is Bronislawa stayed there until she died when Josephine was a tiny child. Adolph then too her to Berlin where we find the them1883-1893. Where he remarried.
the Meade came in 1922 when Josephine married in Los Angeles Ca. Years later. But she travels as I mentioned with a German document, which is curious that she must have had something on those t2 passenger lists where it states Germany as place of birth. It was around war time too 1938 and 39.
Maybe more info will help.

[Rena]

In those years a child had the same nationality as her father not her mother.  .

You say her father Adolph Gronlund was born in Sweden and then went to Berlin when Josephine was a child.    Maybe Adolph registered the birth of his child Josephine with the Swedish consulate, or if he had changed his nationality from Swedish to German he could have registered the birth of his child with the German consulate.

[Lightalma]

Thanks. I will continue to pursue.
Sincerely,
Dale

[jorose]

A passenger list saying someone was b. Germany doesn't necessarily mean she had a document from Germany.

I see that this lady lists herself as b. Poland 1886 at her second marriage in 1922, father Sweden, mother b. Poland
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/K8N9-F1K

Then in 1930 as "b. France":
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XC8Q-VML

And in 1940 as "b. Germany":
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/K9ZW-L8H

In all of these records her age is closer to b. 1885/6, but in the passenger lists you mention it seems she's gained 10 years.

So the information is a bit confused. From what source do you have the records of the family in Berlin ("1883-1893"), and of the marriage in 1869? Who was her first husband Mr Trust, and what information do you have on the first marriage? That record is likely to have more accurate information.

[Lightalma]

Thanks for you time. her first  marriage was Henry Trust., Aug 10 1913 It states she is 25 and born in Berlin. He also same age and I  have his passenger list from Hesse Germany arriving in 1905. They had no children. they lived in Parkridge New Jersey and  NYC He was an inventor of automatic machinery Google patents has those papers. Nothin relevant. Henry died in 1921.
You can see it is really a mystery. I am perplexed that on lthe first marriage she says birth is Berlin. then 1940 census same and 2 passenger lists I know she spoke German. wonder why so many variables!😳
Well I have no more leads just keep hoping😔

[shellyesq]

In the 1939 passenger list, she is listed as a US citizen and it says she was naturalized by her parents.  It also lists her as single.   

The 1938 passenger list also has her as a US citizen, but says she was married and naturalized "thru her husband."

At any rate, if she was a naturalized citizen, then I don't think she would be using any German papers.

It may be worth noting that the 1940 census puts an X next to the name of the person who was giving the information, and in this case, it was Josephine.  It's always possible that she thought she was born in Germany, but wasn't.  Perhaps she was baptized there and used a baptismal certificate as needed?  That may account for some of the age discrepancies.

[Lightalma]

Yes, I think that is possible but where to look in Berlin. It would have been catholic for sure. her father remarried as a widower in 1884 at the Hedwig Church, but there are no baptisms or such for Josephine in that Church at least.  I will throw you another curve. Adolph remarries in 1884 and yet Josephine does give Bronislawa Amann as her Mother, who died when she was tiny. so if Adolph married in 1884 Then Josephine must have been born at least on 1881 to 1884. No 1886. Maybe this German baptism was a typing error?😳

Do you know if there is a way to check for a baptism when you don't know the Church😦

I really am happy for you input, another head helps. 💕