Author Topic: John Goldsmith and Hannah Thorpe of Sussex/Kent  (Read 4458 times)

Offline samkelly72

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 22
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
John Goldsmith and Hannah Thorpe of Sussex/Kent
« on: Tuesday 29 April 14 20:11 BST (UK) »
Hi everyone

I am new here.    I hope someone can help me.

I am a member of Ancestry.co.uk and I have come to a grinding halt regards to my great, great, great grandfather John Goldsmith, born 1797.   His wife was Hannah Rose born 1803 in Lichfield, Staffordshire where they married on 12 March 1820.   

On census for him from 1851 he has his birthplace down as Penshurst, Sussex, UK - but on the 1861 he has it down as Catsfield, Sussex, UK.    Penshurst is actually in Kent but quite close to the border with Sussex.    During these census John and Hannah where living in Ashford, Kent.

What I am trying to find out is who John's mother and father are.   It confuses matters by there being another John Goldsmith who was married to a Philadelphia Relf or Stone.   On the census he is also down as being born in Penshurst in 1798 but also in Chiddingstone.   There is a birth record for a John Goldsmith for 1798 in Penhurst, father being John Goldsmith and mother Ann, but is this for my John or the other one?     

I have looked at the Public member trees (which I know can be unreliable) and most people have put down my John as having parents called Hannah Thorpe (born 1777) and John Goldsmith (born 1769).

The confusing thing is that a smaller number of people have mentioned Hannah Thorpe as being the mother of John (married to Philadelphia).

It seems the 2 John's have been muddled up both because of their same names, near birthdates and birth place of sometimes being Penshurst!

I hope this is not too confusing.   

Any help much appreciated!!


Offline heatherjulie

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,704
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Goldsmith and Hannah Thorpe of Sussex/Kent
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 30 April 14 13:36 BST (UK) »
Is this one of the records you have seen?

John Goldsmith
christening: 11 March 1798 Penshurst, Kent, England
residence:  Kent, England
 
father: John Goldsmith mother: Ann

Heather


 

Offline heatherjulie

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,704
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Goldsmith and Hannah Thorpe of Sussex/Kent
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 30 April 14 13:37 BST (UK) »
John Goldsmith
 christening: 22 April 1798 Marden, Kent, England
residence:  Marden, Kent, England
 
father: Thos. Goldsmith mother: Mary
 

Offline heatherjulie

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,704
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Goldsmith and Hannah Thorpe of Sussex/Kent
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 30 April 14 13:38 BST (UK) »
Were any of their children named after grandparents? Can you spot any common names?


Offline lizdb

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,307
    • View Profile
Re: John Goldsmith and Hannah Thorpe of Sussex/Kent
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 30 April 14 13:51 BST (UK) »
Always a difficult sort of situation to sort out!

Looking at 1851, as you say, there are clearly 2 John Goldsmiths of same age, giving birthplace as Penshurst.

Some ideas -
What occupation ( if any) for the father is given at the christening?
Can a christening be found for the other John?
Are there any Goldsmith Wills which mention a son John and any more details to help tell them apart?
What is your Johns occupation? And the other one? Does that match either of the fathers? ( assuming the second chr can be found and fathers occupations are given!)
Are there siblings christened to either of them, if so are there any unusual family names that crop up in either oif their families, on later censuses?

I wouldnt take any notice of the online trees unless someone can come up with evidence that the chr is their John and not the other one.
I would imagine that they all ( whichever John they are following) have not looked beyond that one christening that comes up easily online, and thus claimed it as correct.
Well done that you have spotted the potential error in doing that, and spotted that one lot must be wrong!
But in order that you find the right one it may take a lot more research than just looking online, and also may mean researching wider family foir them both to see if anything comes up that either makes one more likely than the other, or rules one out completely.

Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline samkelly72

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 22
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Goldsmith and Hannah Thorpe of Sussex/Kent
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 30 April 14 14:16 BST (UK) »
Thank you both for your advice.

Would it be best for me to contact the birth records department in Kent and Sussex to see what they have on their records.     I am guessing that ancestry.co.uk does not have all birth records on there system and some may be missing.

Offline heatherjulie

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,704
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Goldsmith and Hannah Thorpe of Sussex/Kent
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 30 April 14 14:54 BST (UK) »
George Goldsmith
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
 
christening: 27 July 1800 Penshurst, Kent, England
residence:  Kent, England
 
father: John Goldsmith
mother: Ann
 

Offline heatherjulie

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,704
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Goldsmith and Hannah Thorpe of Sussex/Kent
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 30 April 14 14:55 BST (UK) »
The council will not have any birth records from before 1837.

Have you looked on www.familysearch.org for baptisms? That is the site that I got the above information from.

Heather

Offline heatherjulie

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,704
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Goldsmith and Hannah Thorpe of Sussex/Kent
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 30 April 14 15:00 BST (UK) »
William Goldsmith
christening: 13 March 1803 Chiddingstone, Kent, England
residence:  Chiddingstone, Kent, England
father: John Goldsmith mother: Ann

Richard Goldsmith
christening: 9 November 1807 Chiddingstone, Kent, England
residence:  Chiddingstone, Kent, England
father: John Goldsmith mother: Ann 
 

Richard Goldsmith
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 20 March 1808 Chiddingstone, Kent, England
residence:  England