Author Topic: Winifred Toinette ? a real Lancashire mystery  (Read 11769 times)

Offline heywood

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Re: Winifred Toinette ? a real Lancashire mystery
« Reply #9 on: Monday 19 May 14 22:37 BST (UK) »
I think I was wrong there Marg - a different one. Sorry!
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Offline MargP

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Re: Winifred Toinette ? a real Lancashire mystery
« Reply #10 on: Monday 19 May 14 23:03 BST (UK) »
No probs

 :) :) :) :) :)
Family History is a Pandora's box if you don't like what you see find a new hobby,only concentrate on the proven facts and not the facts you think you know.
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Parker Stafford.
Hammond/s Wolverhampton.Shropshire
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Horton Darlaston.
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Paul Morrell

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Re: Winifred Toinette ? a real Lancashire mystery
« Reply #11 on: Monday 19 May 14 23:53 BST (UK) »
Thank you all for your interesting and helpful replies.

Re Winifred`s date of birth, I have copies of various Derby local newspaper reports (for local election and magistrate court appearances from 1947 and 1948) that give Winifred`s age as 47.

I don`t think Winifred ever Married Tommy as he already had a wife and family in Newcastle. He was a catholic, so no divorce. I think many of the couples friends, associates and the press of the day thought they were married. As did John Charnley (author of "Blackshirts and Roses") he does record in his book that "Toni" Moran, sometimes spoke as "Mrs Sharp" (a pseudonym I would guess, referring to her "sharp" tongue) Corroborating John Charnley`s claim, I have a copy of a newspaper report from September 1935, recording that Tommy Moran and "Mrs Sharp" spoke on the same platform at a Fascist meeting at Corporation Field, Hull. It could have been around this time that they met ? and Mrs Sharp became Mrs Moran. Re "Mrs Sharp" Morris Beckman in his book "The 43 Group" writes of Mrs Moran`s voice "she made a fishwife sound like a cloistered nun"

Knowing that she took on the name Moran, I do wonder if she also gave herself the name Toinette ?  A further mystery is that John Charnley claims that she replied to Jewish hecklers at meetings in Yiddish ? Again, corroborated in newspaper reports. Did she grow up in an area with a strong Jewish community ? Was she Jewish ?

A long shot, but if I could find out the nature of her business in Derby, I could possibly by a process of elimination find her roots in Lancashire through local trade directories and the 1911 census. Following the theory, in business, you do what you know.

Once again thank you all for your helpful and interesting replies. Any further ideas greatly appreciated

Kind regards

Paul

Offline avm228

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Re: Winifred Toinette ? a real Lancashire mystery
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 20 May 14 04:42 BST (UK) »
I wouldn't assume without further investigation that "Mrs Sharp(e)" was just a pseudonym.  It may be an important clue.

I see from an online extract that Copsey & Renton's book on Fascism, which listed T. Moran in the index, also listed a D.E. Sharpe.  Is this person's identity known?
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)


Paul Morrell

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Re: Winifred Toinette ? a real Lancashire mystery
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 20 May 14 09:00 BST (UK) »
Thank you avm228, I`ll check that out

Offline jaywit

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Re: Winifred Toinette ? a real Lancashire mystery
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 20 May 14 10:46 BST (UK) »
Have you tried to see if T or W Moran had a telephone number in Derby in the 1940s?

You might at least get an address that way  and that might lead to a business.

http://www.derby.gov.uk/leisure-and-culture/libraries/derby-libraries/local-studies-library/

I think they have old telephone directories
Cross Steeple Claydon Bucks,  Jennings Steeple Claydon Bucks,  Steel Byfield Northants,  Rogers Northants,  Wheeler Oxon,  Roberts Oxon,  Bonham Oxon/ Middleton Cheney Northants,  Maycock Northants,  Abbott Northants , Newman Northants, Buckingham Bucks, Hart Warks, Newth Gloucs.

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Offline MargP

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Re: Winifred Toinette ? a real Lancashire mystery
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 20 May 14 11:47 BST (UK) »
Hi

"Re Winifred`s date of birth, I have copies of various Derby local newspaper reports (for local election and magistrate court appearances from 1947 and 1948) that give Winifred`s age as 47."


I would not put much credence on the, reported birth year, in the June article 1948 she was 47, and in the Sept article  1948 she was 45
Family History is a Pandora's box if you don't like what you see find a new hobby,only concentrate on the proven facts and not the facts you think you know.
Jenkins, Radnorshire. Herefordshire, Canada
Coley Dudley.
Baston, Cleobury Mortimer.Wolverhampton
Parker Stafford.
Hammond/s Wolverhampton.Shropshire
Duckworth Cheshire.
Proud Walsall.Proud Cape South Africa
Horton Darlaston.
Stanton Walsall.
Tudor. Radnorshire
Pittaway. Droitwich

Offline ShaunJ

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Re: Winifred Toinette ? a real Lancashire mystery
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 20 May 14 13:28 BST (UK) »
A 1935 reference to "Mrs Sharp of Manchester" speaking ahead of Tommy Moran http://www.britishonlinearchives.co.uk/page.php?did=125-bla-1935b&pageno=92&date_option=equal&textonly=yes
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Paul Morrell

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Re: Winifred Toinette ? a real Lancashire mystery
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 20 May 14 14:15 BST (UK) »
A 1935 reference to "Mrs Sharp of Manchester" speaking ahead of Tommy Moran http://www.britishonlinearchives.co.uk/page.php?did=125-bla-1935b&pageno=92&date_option=equal&textonly=yes

 Brilliant   ;)  Thank you very much ShaunJ