India Service Records: Commissariat Department / Supply & Transport Corps

[Seaton Smithy]

Hi.  This is just a quick question before I post the names and other extensive personal details I have found.

I've been trying to locate the service records of 3 relatives without success.  All 3 served in India in the Commissariat Department and/or Supply & Transport Corps.

Should I expect to find these records on FindMyPast or would they only be held at the British Library in the India Office records?

[km1971]

It depends if they were Imperial (ie British army) or HEIC, and the date. More Imperial are on line - at least if he received a pension. BMDs for both may be online.

Ken

[Seaton Smithy]

Thanks, Ken.

All Imperial Army as far as I know.  Two died while serving, but one with the most individual name retired after 24 years service so I thought I would have found his record.  Perhaps it's down to my search skills on FindMyPast.

BDMs are not an issue - apart from the exact birth of one man, I have births, marriages, children, deaths and even second marriages of widows.  Building on this excellent assistance from the Scotland and NZ boards:

www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=653536.0‎
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=669468.63

I have found a lot of biographical detail using a combination of FIBIS, familysearch.org, the India Office Family Search and Ancestry which I will detail in the posts below to save any duplication.

What I haven’t been able to find is the relevant military files (although I have information about one man’s service from a secondary source).  I have credits on FindMyPast that I am happy to use, I just haven’t found anything to use them on.

The short version is I am particularly interested in these three men who all served in the Commissariat Department/Supply & Transport Corps:

James Quinn, born Dundee, Scotland 1843, died Sibi, India 1885

Roland Martin Quinn, born Fyazabad, India 1871, died New Zealand 1918

Austin Killeen, born about 1861, died Murree, India in 1907.

[Seaton Smithy]

Part 1: James Quinn

James Quinn was born in Dundee, Scotland in 1843.  On the 1881 Scotland Census he is shown living with his mother Mary Quinn and his family in Arbroath with his occupation shown as “Staff Sergeant Bengal Unattached List on 12 Months Leave from India”.  His wife Catherine is shown as born in Ireland about 1856, and his children “Relind” (actually Roland) and Edith are shown as born in East Bengal, India.

James Quinn marries Catherine Britt in 1870 at St Mary’s Church, Fyzabad.  Her father is recorded as Martin Britt.

Roland Martin Quinn is born in 1871 and christened at St Mary’s Church, Fyzabad.

Edith Mary Quinn is born in 1874 and christened at St Mary’s Church, Fyzabad.

James Quinn dies in 1885 in Sibi.  At the time of his death he is a Sub-Conductor (Warrant Officer) in the Commissariat Department.

After James’ death, Catherine remarries (recorded as Kathleen Quinn) in 1893 in Sialket to John William Litchfield, who is a widower with several children of his own.

Catherine Litchfield dies in 1899 in Cawnpore.

John William Litchfield dies in Fyzabad in 1900.  At the time of his death he was a Lieutenant in the Commissariat Department having been granted an honorary commission in 1891 (I’m not specifically interested in John’s service history but mention it as there is a clear pattern).  He was also a Freemason.
 
Query: I have tried to find James’ service history on FindMyPast but have not come up with anything sensible. Any assistance, information or a nudge in the right direction would be appreciated.  Information about Martin Britt would be a bonus.

[Seaton Smithy]

Part 2: Roland Martin Quinn

Roland Martin Quinn is born in Fyzabad in 1871.  He serves in the British Army in India before retiring and migrating to New Zealand and serving for that country during WWI.  I am fortunate to have Roland’s NZ service file, and even more fortunately it contains a certified copy of his Retirement Certificate detailing his Indian service.

Roland attests in 1887 for the 2nd Battalion Scottish Rifles, transfers to the Unattached List in 1893, is promoted to Sergeant 1894, to Sub-Conductor in 1896 and then Conductor in 1906.  He voluntarily retires from the Supply and Transport Corps (successor to the Commissariat Department) in 1912 at which time his employment is described as “In charge of supply and transport at Campbellpore”.  His character is first described as Excellent, which is crossed out and replaced with Exemplary.  The record tells us Roland is decorated at Chitral 1895 (medal and bar), Tirah 1897-98 (two bars) and China (Boxer Rising) 1900-01 (medal and bar) and receives the Good Conduct medal.  Roland tells us he is granted a pension of £100 per year.  A Regimental number is not cited.

I have found a medal roll confirming that R M Quinn had already received the India Medal of 1895 with a clasp for Chitral and indicating his entitlement to a clasp for Punjab Frontier 1897-98.  There is a column for Tirah 1897-98 but that is left blank.  Roland also appears on the India Army Quarterly List for 1 January 1912.

Roland Martin Quinn marries Margaret Rose O’Neill at St Paul's Church, Lucknow in 1894.  Her father is recorded as John O’Neill.  Roland and Margaret do not have children.  After Roland’s retirement from the British army in 1912, the couple migrate to New Zealand.

I have not found a birth record for Margaret, but later records indicate she was born about 1878 and probably in India.  I have found birth records for a confirmed sister Violet May Marie O’Neill born 1880 in Benares and possible (but not proven) siblings recorded as the children of father John O’Neill and mother Mary:
 
Elizabeth O’Neill is born in Meean Meer in 1874, and an Elizabeth O’Neill shown as born 1874 dies in Dum Dum in 1874.

William Patrick O’Neill is born in Benares in 1875.  On the 1911 England census there is a William O’Neill born in Benares in 1875 living as a boarder in Lincolnshire.

John Harold O’Neill is born in Lucknow in 1885.  John Harold O’Neill marries in Lucknow in 1908 and also dies there in 1939.  He has at least one daughter in 1913 who marries in Lucknow in 1933.

Violet May Marie O’Neill marries a soldier named Alfred William Baldwin (who originally joined the military using the false name Frederick Viceroy) in 1907 in Cawnpore.  Alfred and Violet have three children in born in India and two more in New Zealand in 1913 and 1915.  Alfred’s comprehensive British military record is on Ancestry and his rise through the ranks in NZ can be traced on the Papers Past newspaper archive. 

Roland originally joins the NZ army as a temporary Sergeant-Instructor.  In 1915 he successfully applies for a commission as a Lieutenant, and is promoted to Captain in 1917.  On some official records he is recorded as “Ronald”.

Roland Martin Quinn dies in 1918 as the result of a carcinoma attributed to an injury sustained in 1916 from a kick from a horse.  His next of kin Margaret’s contact address is c/- Captain A W Baldwin.
 
Margaret Rose Quinn dies in Auckland in 1945.  A death notice confirms her as the sister of the late Mrs A W Baldwin.

Query: Although I have details of Roland’s Indian service from his NZ record, I feel I should be able to find the actual file online either at FindMyPast or on Ancestry like Alfred Baldwin’s can be found.  Again, any assistance or information would be appreciated.  Information about John O’Neill would be a bonus.

[Seaton Smithy]

Part 3: Edith Mary Quinn

Edith Mary Quinn is born in 1874 in Fyzabad.  She marries Austin Killeen in 1891 at St Michael's Chapel, Simla.  Austin’s father is recorded as Patrick Killeen and his date of birth recorded as 1861 although I haven't found a separate birth record.

Edith and Austin have four children: James Austin Killeen, Chungla Gully 1892; Kathleen Mary Killeen, Landour 1893; Aileen Margaret Killeen, Siakot 1896; and, Doreen May Killeen, Peshawar 1907.

Austin Killeen dies in Muree in 1907.  At the time of his death Austin is a Conductor in the Supply and Transport Corps. 

I have found a medal roll for Chitral 1895 naming Sub-Conductor A Killeen.  On FindMyPast I found what purported to be his probate record, but was in fact just the cover page of the file that contains his probate details along with other unrelated records.

Edith Mary Killeen marries John Harry Cathcart Larsen in Karachi in 1908.  He is the son of John Albert (sometimes recorded as Alfred) Larsen and Winifred Ellen Bickers.  The Larsens appear to be civilians with John Snr employed with the Bank of Bengal.

Winifred Edith Georgina Larsen is born in Multan in 1911.

Edith Mary Larsen dies in Karachi in 1929.

John Harry Cathcart Larsen dies in Karachi in 1930.

I have not found what happens to Edith’s children.  There is a James Killeen born in India who dies in France in 1915, but I have been advised that James Killeen is a different man born in Futtehgurh in 1873.  There is a Georgiana W Larsen who marries Frederick George Lewis in 1930 and I suspect this may be Winifred Edith Georgina but haven't confirmed this yet.

Query: I have also searched for Austin’s service on FindMyPast without success.   Again, any assistance or information would be appreciated. 

[km1971]

Two died while serving, but one with the most individual name retired after 24 years service so I thought I would have found his record.  Perhaps it's down to my search skills on FindMyPast.

Before WW1 they destroyed the service records of men dying in service. If they were discharged to pension up to 31st December 1913 surviving records will be on Findmypast. Between 1st January 1914 and (in theory) August 1920 - ie 'WW1' - they will be on Ancestry. They did not get around to destroying the records of 'WW1' soldiers who died while serving. However, only about 21% of 'WW1' records survived a fire intact in 1940. A further c10% 'burnt' records were kept and deciphered by the Friends of the NA, Ancestry etc in the last ten years; plus c4-5% of no-longer required pension files were sent to the War Office to make up some of the loss. All these make up what is on Ancestry. The pension files include men who applied for a pension and were turned down, or received a temporary pension and was no longer receiving it.

All this only applies to 'other ranks'.

Ken

[Seaton Smithy]

Thanks, Ken.

So James' and Austin's will have been destroyed.

Roland retired in 1912, so in theory his should be on FindMyPast.  I just can't find it.  Oh well, at least I have a summary of it from his NZ record.

[km1971]

Roland retired in 1912, so in theory his should be on FindMyPast. 

In the old format - before FindMyPast 'improved' it - you could do an advanced search of just a particular regiment/corps. I am doing without FindMyPast and Ancestry for a few months, so I cannot check, but when I looked for the advanced search I could not find it. If you can find it you can try just his first name and his corps.

Is there a chance he transferred units right at the end? They are filed/indexed under the man's last unit.

Also the 1911 census included military overseas as well as at home.

Ken