Knapp, Australia

[wivenhoe]

Death certificate for William KNAPP d. 1856 aged 53yrs has age at marriage - 19yrs, years in colony 16.

It could be years married - 19, fits with son John aged 18yrs.

If he was married at age 19, there should be older children. Wonder how the informant knows so much, but not name of wife?


Is this connected to William KNAPP d. 1856?
marriage
V1840882 24B/1840  KNAPP  William  m.  PARFITT  Mary  MC

death
V1841322 25B/1841  KNAPP  Mary       age 38

marriage   
V1842168 26C/1842  KNAPP  William   m.  PORTEUS  Margaret         CJ

birth
V18443407 28/1844  KNAPP  John G       parents   William / Mary A     
V18443406 28/1844  KNAPP  Caroline E   parents William / Mary A 
 

[judb]

The death certificate for the William KNAPP died 1 December 1856, (shown on the PROV wills site) looks to me to show an age of 37 years for him.  Thus a birthdate of abt 1819 which fits with a marriage at the age of abt 19 in 1839.

The names and ages of his children as listed fit with the names and ages of the children of Mary Ann KNAPP d 22 April 1855.  I would suggest that the wife's information has been left off the death cert of William as she is already dead.  The informant on the William KNAPP death cert is possibly not  related so may not have access to correct information. 

I suggest also that the reason the administration of William's estate was not granted until 1878 would have been that the children were not of age when he died.

Judith

[~MERLIN~]

His name is registered as KNABB on the Death & Inquest index the same as his death certificate.

Death:

KNABB William (b. ENG) d.age 37yrs 1856 #5371
Given Names: William
Father: Unknown
Mother:      -

Inquest:

KNABB William 1856 #863
Place: Balmoral
Occupation: Carpenter
Cause: Killed By Cart Upset

[judb]

You're right Merlin, the d c does give the name KNABB.  Part of the affidavit for administration makes the statement that the name is KNAPP incorrectly spelt as KNABB on the death cert.

None of which helps us find his immigration records; so what I am trying to do is to work out which was the first child born in Australia to help with an immigration record   
Random thoughts........
NSW BMD has birth registrations for Caroline Elizabeth and John George - both with parents William and Mary A
V18443407 28/1844    John G KNAPP        
V18443406 28/1844   Caroline E  KNAPP
Comment - were these twins or are these baptism registrations? (Help, JM!!)
TROVE shows a sad end for Caroline Elizabeth DOIG - burnt in a house fire in January 1913, aged 78, which would give a birthdate of abt 1844.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/10762977

According to IGI Caroline Elizabeth KNAPP was baptised in 1844 in Melbourne, but this may not be her birth year.
31 December 1844 at St James, Melbourne, New South Wales, Australia
Caroline Elizabeth KNAPP   
Parents: William Knapp, Mary Ann
Indexing Project (Batch) Number:   C13545-2,  GS Film number:   993955
However the age of Caroline Elizabeth from the death certificates (see below) give a birthdate of about 1840/1841 which would seem more logical for a couple married in 1839. And perhaps there was an older John deceased

The children listed on the death certificates are (shown with age at Dec 1856 first then age at Apr 1865), other details have been added form the affidavit of John George KNAPP in 1878 - all were living in Hamilton in 1878 except as listed.
John 18 - no age given on Mary Ann's d c, and he is listed after Elizabeth on that certificate.
Elizabeth 16, 14 - marries Alexander DOIG
George 13, 12 - named as John George on the PROV probate papers
Thomas 12, 10  - living in Edenhope 1878
Amelia 10, 8
Jonathan 8, 6 - living in Sale 1878
Jane 6, 5
Harriet 3, 1.5 - marries George PANOWITZ
It isn't clear from these certificates whether the first child was actually John  - was he actually the John George who gained administration of William's estate??

Anyhow, it seems certain that William KNAPP arrived in Australia some time after his marriage in September 1839 and the registration of his children's birth/baptism in 1844.

Sorry have probably just given information already known. 

Judith

[majm]

.....
NSW BMD has birth registrations for Caroline Elizabeth and John George - both with parents William and Mary A
V18443407 28/1844    John G KNAPP        
V18443406 28/1844   Caroline E  KNAPP
Comment - were these twins or are these baptism registrations? (Help, JM!!) 

Edit to add

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTCV-QRJ  Ann KNAPP, baptism in Vic parents as William and Mary

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTCV-WPX Caroline Elizabeth KNAPP, baptism in Vic parents as William and Mary Ann

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTCV-WPJ John George KNAPP, baptism in Vic, parents as William and Mary Ann.

So, John G and Caroline E KNAPP are NOT twins, but likely siblings, baptised on same day in same church....  and because Vic was not yet separated from NSW, and because the clergy were meant to forward details of baptisms, burials and marriages that they conduct to the NSW Chaplains, then there's the Early Church Records at NSW BDM 

So is it possible there's several William and Mary KNAPP in Melbourne in 1844   

Cheers,  JM

[judb]

Yay JM - I knew you'd come in with the goods.  Can you see an arrival for this family?

I agree that there's more than one William KNAPP, and I'm doubtful that the Ann KNAPP also baptised 1844 is of the same family.  However, I see that there are birth as well as baptism dates for Caroline Elizabeth KNAPP (born 28 Feb 1844, bap 31 Dec 1844)  and John George KNAPP (born 27 Aug 1842, baptised same day as Caroline Elizabeth),  Still seems odd as George is supposed younger than Caroline Elizabeth on the death certs).  However perhaps the mistranscriptions are even more numerous in this family!  As Mary Ann signed her marriage cert with a cross it's probable that she was illiterate and therefore unable to check details given.

Judith

[majm]

Sometimes the NSW parish register for the baptism may have mention of where born .... for example "born at sea" or a UK County .... and they usually include an occupation for the Dad ....   These snippets could then help determine when they arrived     

Images can be ordered via familysearch  and received as email attachments ....

Add http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=685720.0



Cheers,  JM

[judb]

Thanks, JM.  I find the 'new' familysearch IGI VERY difficult.  I put in the parent details for those KNAPP baptisms and up came Caroline Elizabeth but no sign of John George, although you found the page for him.   Oh for the olden days - a nice succinct list would be shown without all the faffing around.  Rant over -    Judith

[majm]

   Yes I agree, the IGI has been a well worn patch here too,  but on other hand, remember the rule "less is more" so I just put in KNAPP and 1844 and restricted the search to Australia....  as that was info you had found  at NSW BDM

Add
https://familysearch.org/search   and only "records" is "ALMOST" IGI 

Cheers,  JM