Help needed in understanding a photo RAF

[elfinblues]

Hi everyone
It's a while since I last posted anything here, but I'm wondering if I could call on those with a little military expertise to help me understand these photos. They are pretty generic group photos, I know, and they are completely uncaptioned. There is very little there to give any hint of where they might have been taken, who is in them and so on. But it would help if someone out there who is familiar with these types of military photo could tell me what event they might signify - could the larger group one be some sort of 'passing out' celebratory picture? If so, passing out from what - initial training, perhaps, or later, more specialised training - and what might the group be - a class, a unit of some kind? My grandfather is in the photos, and he was initially an accounts clerk and later a wireless mechanic with the RAF. Vague questions, I know, but any insights that anyone could offer might help me to pinpoint these photographs to one of the known stages of my grandfather's time with the RAF. Many, many thanks in advance. Steve

[Treetotal]

I'm surprised that there has been no response to this 
Do you have any idea of the dates and places of his service.
Carol

[ScouseBoy]

Can anyone say what the Specialist badges  denote, please?   Would they be Instrument mechanic   or  Wireless  or Radar mechanic?

[ScouseBoy]

In the top picture of nine men,  they mostly seem to be age thirty or over, suggesting they were technicians with previous experience before joining the RAF

[Ruskie]

Good of you to bring this thread to rootschatter's attention Carol.

In the top picture of nine men,  they mostly seem to be age thirty or over, suggesting they were technicians with previous experience before joining the RAF

I disagree. I think about three of them may be in their 30s, but the others look younger. A couple of them look about 15! 

Can anyone say what the Specialist badges  denote, please?   Would they be Instrument mechanic   or  Wireless  or Radar mechanic?

The OP has already said that his grandfather is in the photos and that he was a Wireless Mechanic.

Steve, further to Carol's question, do you have your grandfather's service record?

I'm sure that the military experts will be along soon to offer their opinions on your photos. Good luck.

[ScouseBoy]

The top photo of nine men  could have been taken at the end of a course  for training Radar Technicians. 

Also note the difference in hats worn by some of the men.
We have been discussing caps in another thread.   It is interesting that those informal caps (known as Forage Caps by RAF men)   are still being worn in 1940.

[MaxD]

I see no specialist badges on either of the photographs.  These were/are worn about 9-12 inches from the top of the sleeve.  The badge at the top of the sleeve is the standard RAF eagle.  Close beneath is a smaller badge which may be the small rectangular cloth VR worn by RAFVR other rank personnel up to 1943.  (Most war time members were RAFVR)

They are certainly photographs of courses of instruction of some sort but I see no indication of what the subject might have been.  The lack of rank and trade badges suggest pre-trade training.

maxD

[ScouseBoy]

Good of you to bring this thread to rootschatter's attention Carol.

In the top picture of nine men,  they mostly seem to be age thirty or over, suggesting they were technicians with previous experience before joining the RAF

I disagree. I think about three of them may be in their 30s, but the others look younger. A couple of them look about 15! 

Can anyone say what the Specialist badges  denote, please?   Would they be Instrument mechanic   or  Wireless  or Radar mechanic?

   You cannot be serious (to coin a phrase from tennis)   Very unlikely to be as young as 15.
men and women engaged on Radar work  were told that it was extremely secret.

The OP has already said that his grandfather is in the photos and that he was a Wireless Mechanic.

Steve, further to Carol's question, do you have your grandfather's service record?

I'm sure that the military experts will be along soon to offer their opinions on your photos. Good luck.

[MaxD]

It is probable that the poster knows how old his grandfather was when the war began so discussion of the age of the men in the photos is surely irrelevant?

As Ruskie has pointed out, the poster knows that grandfather was an accounts clerk then a wireless mechanic, so guessing that they are instrument mechanics or radar mechanics/technicians doesn’t help at all.  The photos hold no evidence of trades at all.

Based on the lack of rank badges and trade badges my suggestion (and without solid evidence it can only be a suggestion) is that the larger group is the earliest and is of men during or following their basic training.  Clues are the instructor in the centre (there is a trace of a rank badge to be seen) is wearing strip webbing, often worn by weapon training or drill instructors and that many of the men have the look of new recruits, a bit rabbit in the headlights.
The smaller group photo follows the larger and could well be a basic trade course for one of the trades followed by the grandfather.  The men are clearly now confident wearing their uniforms and are more relaxed than before, exactly what happens when they “have got some in”.
So – early in grandfather’s service and, if the small patch beneath the eagle is a VR, then before 1943.
And for the avoidance of doubt, it was normal for folk to talk about being in the RAF even if, technically, they were in the RAFVR as were the majority of those who joined once the war had begun.  It made no difference.

maxD