Joe Harold Clements

[Mr Jenkins]

I'm stuck. I can trace most of the bigger moments in Joe Harold's life via Findmypast; born 1879, married Eileen Browne in 1903, was a Coffee house keeper in 1911 where he is listed as being widowed, married Lily Emily Fuller (my grandmother)in 1917 and died in 1944. What baffles me is this; he and Eileen Clements nee Browne had three children; Eileen Bella, George and a daughter known as 'May', but I don't think that was her real name (in fact, searching 'May Clements' doesn't produce anything relevant to my family). I don't see why 'May' (or whatever her real name might have been) doesn't show up on the 1911 census or why nothing comes up for Joe Harold on the 1901 census.
If Joe and Eileen were married in 1903 and Joe was widowed by 1911 then 'May' must have been born between those dates. 'May' died on 9th January 1987 in Hanwell, according to a family friend who recalls her death, but doesn't know if she had ever married (so I don't know what her first or last names were when she died! or if she ever had children. Is it possible to find her? It seems unlikely. Yours, befuddled of London.

[rosie99]

Does the 1911 indicate how many children to the marriage, sometimes it is filled in by mistake when someone is widowed. 

[keyboard86]

Hi is it at all possible that "May" was a child of Eileen's prior to marriage?

Keyboard86

[Craclyn]

You need to look at the final census record. It may not be just May that you are missing from your list of children. Joe seems to have two sisters-in-law with the surname Hatton. Might be worth looking to see if "May" is living with other Hatton relatives.
My experience of "May" as a name is that it is often a derivative of Mary. Have you searched for a Mary Clements of the right age?

[keyboard86]

Look at the Agnes Hatton aged 19 with a Browne family including a married Eileen Browne in Lewisham?
1901 ref RG13/553/90/17

Keyboard86

[Mr Jenkins]

Thanks, particularly Keyboard86. I have looked at the 1901 census at Agnes Hatton and am possibly even more bemused. I knew that Joe's wife Eileen had been married previously and wondered if 'May' could have been a child from her first marriage but she has always been referred to as a sister of George James and Eileen Bella. If Agnes is a servant in the household which contained Eileen Browne in Lewisham in 1901, how is she listed as 'sister-in-law' to Joe Harold in 1911 (along with Daisy)? Wouldn't she be listed as sister-in-law to Charles Browne in 1901? Talking of Charles, he is listed as 'Coffee house keeper' which is how Joe Harold was described in 1911. Was Eileen Browne very particular in what she wanted from a husband? Or is 'Coffee house keeper' a euphemism? Could she really have married two coffee house keepers? It's getting more befuddling.

[keyboard86]

  Have not looked for the Browne marriage, but what surname did Eileen marry under prior to 1903 then, and their are 2 possible births of May Browne's in 1901/2?

Keyboard86

[Mr Jenkins]

I'm sorry but I have no idea of Eileen Browne's maiden name. Joe Harold (Eileen's second husband) was my grandfather (my mum's dad). Eileen died before my mum was born but she always said her dad's first wife was always referred to as 'Mrs Browne'. 'May' and Eileen Bella disappeared from family life; 'May' lost touch in 1944 when Joe Harold died and Eileen Bella went to Australia in 1929. 'May' was found and contacted in the 80s but died after seeing her step family (among them my mother) only once or twice. No one that has even a vague a connection to May is alive now. It's proving very difficult to piece things together. Interesting that May Browne is a possibility. I was aware, but don't know how, that she went under a name that wasn't her's; perhaps Clements wasn't her real name rather than May.

[rosie99]

Does the 1911 indicate how many children to the marriage, sometimes it is filled in by mistake when someone is widowed.

Have you looked at this, have you accounted for all of the children