Joe Harold Clements

[Mr Jenkins]

It says there are three children still alive on the 1911 census which I thought would be the two listed as living at the same address (George James and Eileen Bella) and the inexplicably absent 'May'. However, I've never known much about this branch of the family and I'm beginning to doubt that.

[lizdb]

I agree with Rosie -

I reckon "May" is out there somewhere - maybe visiting reliies or something.

To find out more about Eileen's past you really do need to get her and Joe's marriage cert, I think.
That will give you her fathers name, thus providing you with a maiden name for her.
Alternatively, one of the children's birth certs should give her maiden name.

[lizdb]

Probate index entry -

Eileen Clements of 24 La Belle Alliance Square, Ramsgate (wife of Joe Harold Clements) died 20 April 1910 Admin to the said Joe Harold Clements Tramway Inspector

What a shame she didnt leave a Will - may have mentioned all the children.

Cant see one for Joe either.

[lizdb]

Another thought - who are the witnesses when Joe marries Lily Fuller in 1917?  None called May by any chance?

[Mr Jenkins]

I don't have the relevant marriage certificate so I don't know who the witnesses were. Joe Harold did receive a certificate for long service for his work on the trams (28 years, I think) but that was in West London and he received it just before he died. I am becoming more confused by the second. Joe Harold is a coffee shop keeper in Croydon in 1911. A year before that it is noted that he worked on the tramways for which he received recognition in 1944. His wife dies in 1910 in Ramsgate. The names (Eileen Bella and George James) tie in with the Joe Harold in a Croydon coffee shop of which he seems to be the owner. Why was Eileen in Ramsgate a year after George was born? Is it possible Charles Browne had a chain of coffee shops which were left to Eileen when he died and Joe Harold was looking after one of them while Eileen was away? Aaaargh; that's about as articulate as I can get at the moment.

[Craclyn]

Maybe you could look for your coffee shops in a business directory or even see if they advertised in the newspapers. You never know when you might hit on lucky. I just found one of my 3x great grandfathers mystery location after he ran off because he started advertising fresh oysters in the local paper.

[keyboard86]

Hi again, have you checked the 2 Browne boys from the 1901, Charles b c 1897 and Percy b 1900 both Catford, Kent ie if Charles Browne snr has died 1901/3 who are they with?

Keyboard86

[keyboard86]

The death of a Charles Horsby Browne aged 30 in Lewisham 1902 makes me wonder if a Charles Hornsby Brown married an Eileen Lynch in Dec qtr 1895 Barnet 3a 353 their is a Nellie Lynch ( Nellie middle name of Eileen at marriage to Joe Harold Clements) with an Agnes Hatton aged 8 on 1891 RG12/470/83/4
One to look at?

Keyboard86

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Think I've found Percy Browne on 1911 - the Lynch theory would fit