Ellen Dwyer of Glamorganshire

[Revolution]

Hi!

Ive purchased the following certificates from the GRO.

1866 birth of Ellen Dwyer. Father Richard and mother Catherine McCarthy. 22 Framroad Side, Goergetown, Merthyr. Richard a labourer in a Buckyard. Merthyr Tydfil lower.

1867 death of Ellen Dwyer age 48 wife of Jeremiah Dwyer. 5 Gule Victoria Street, Dowlass, Upper Mrethyr Tydful

1862 death of Ellen Dwyer aged 2, daughter of Richard Dwyer a labourer of 6 Gabe Court Morgan town. Catherine Dwyer the informant. Upper Merthyr Tydful

16 Jan 1870 death of John Dewire (Labourer) of 1 Morris Court Caedraw, Merthyr. The mark of Ellen Dewire present at death Age 56 years of bronchitis. Merthyr Tydfil Lower

1 April 1862 birth of Ellen Dwyer of 5 Picton Street, Merthyr. Ellen Doyle mother. Fathers occupation Ash Filler Ironworks. John signs with an X

Death certificates have been notoriously unreliable for me over the years. People in grief can be asked for information and sometimes its entirely incorrectwhat they provide.

[Revolution]

I am actively pursuing the idea that Ellen was the daughter of John Dwyer and Ellen Doyle. Perhaps Ellen Sr was known as Catherine as her mother was also Catherine?

If Ellens father died in 1870 it explains why hes not in the 1871 census and Ellen Sr and the children at home married, died or were working out of home

John and Ellen had

Mary Ann 1845
John 1847
Ann 1850
Michael 1855
Patrick 1858 died as an infant
Denis 1860 died as an infant
Ellen 1862

Mary Ann may have married David/Dennis Foley in 1869 but I cant find any marriages on ancestry, FindMyPast, Family Search to confirm who her father was. Living with them in the 1881 census is a Michael Dwyer listed as a boarder but not a brother in law. I cant find them in the 1891 census

Some family tree have Ann Dwyer marrying James Leary in Queensland, Australia. I purchased this marriage and it said she was from Dowlais, Glamorgan. Father was John Dwyer and mother Ellen Connell. This was in 1875 and she said she was 25 at the time which fits with her actual birth.

I can only find two GRO references for Ann/Annie Dwyer born in 1850 and 1852 with the mothers surname being:

 DWYER, ANN  mother surname    DAELL GRO Reference: 1850  M Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL  Volume 26  Page 424
DWYER, ANN mothers surname DAHILL  GRO Reference: 1852  S Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL  Volume 11A  Page 245. Both of the surnames could actually be Doyle said with their mothers Irish accent. I cant find any Dwyer children born their mothers surname Connor or any variant.  Ive ordered the certificate of one of them.

There multiple trees on ancestry with conflicting information. Having access to some marriages might give me a breakthrough. Still no sign of Ellen Srs marriage or death after her husband died and the 1871 census passed

[Revolution]

More certificates I ordered turned up today:

Births:

15 July 1845 in Caedraw, Mary Dwyer daughter of John Dwyer - labourer. Mother Ellen Dwyer formerly Doyle. Informant John Dwyer father. Merthyr Tydfil Lower

Not sure this is the right one. 19 Aug 1847 Isle of Wight, John Dwyer son of John Dwyer - labourer. Mark of Ellen Dwyer mother Isle of Wight.

15 Feb 1850 Ynysgan Merthyr Tydfil Ann Dwyer daughter of John Dwyer - labourer. Mother Ellen Daell. The mark of Ellen Dwyer mother Ynysgan Merthyr Tydfil

7 May 1855 Caedraw, Merthyr Tydfil. Michael Dwyer son of John Dwyer labourer in Iron works. Mother Ellen Dwyer formerly Dahill. The mark of Ellen Dwyer mother Caedraw, Merthyr Tydfil

4 April 1858 Picton street Merthyr Patrick Dwyer son of John Dwyer masons attender. Mother Ellen Dwyer formerly Doyle. The mark of John Dwyer father Picton Street, Merthyr Tydfil

23 Apr 1860 22 Upper Taff Street Merthyr Denis Dwyer son of John Dwyer - labourer Ironworks. The mark of John Dwyer father 22 Upper Taff Street.

The same registrar for all of them Job James

There is another birth I havent purchased yet. If its Ellen Doyle registering it then that could account for the multiple spelling variants.

DWYER, ANN        DAHILL     
GRO Reference: 1852  S Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL  Volume 11A  Page 245

Deaths

10 Jan 1861 21 Upper Taff Street Merthyr Dennis Dwyer male 8 months son of John Dwyer - labourer. The mark of John Dwyer present at death

5 Jan 1859 Picton Street Merthyr Patrick Dwyer, male age 10 months son of John Dwyer labourer Ironworks. The mark of John Dwyer present at death

[Revolution]

It looks like John Dwyer Jr was born on the Isle of Wight. He was baptised


225187
Name: JOHN DWYER
Father: JOHN & Mother: ELLEN DOYLE
at DOWLAIS ST ILLTYD RC on 05SEP 1847

[Daisypetal]

Hi,

I'm not sure where the Isle of Wight comes into this John DWYER is not mentioned in the births here,

https://www.isle-of-wight-fhs.co.uk/


This looks like his birth at the GRO site,

John DWYER    Sep Q 1847    Merthyr Tydfil    v.26  p.408       
mmn:  DARRILL     



Sorry if this adds to the confusion of Ellen's name, DWYER/DALTON mmn: FEAN/FINN but I saw this birth that I can't find an explanation for,

Ellen DAWTON    Dec Q 1863    Merthyr Tydfil    v.11a  p.317
mmn: FIEND


I can't find her anywhere after this.

Regards,
Daisy

[Revolution]

Hi Daisy

That post should have said he was baptised in Merthyr Tydfil. Its the same John but I have no idea why the certificate says Isle of Wight. Unlikely they were holidaying there. Did she have family there? Its a long way to travel in those days. Perhaps she gave birth there and returned to Wales afterwards or the Registrar got it wrong or he didn't understand Ellen. Was she trying to say one of the Welsh names?

Im still not 100% that John and Ellen are the parents of my Ellen which makes this a costly exploration. DNA hasn't thrown up any connections to any Dwyers which is unusual as Ive had multiple people tested

It might be worth me looking at the Dawton record too

[Daisypetal]

Hi,

You might have found these already but just in case


http://www.merthyr-history.com/?p=2944

https://www.merthyr-history.com/?tag=caedraw


So the "Isle of Wight" area was in Merthyr Tydfil and they were there all the time


Swan Street can still be found using Google maps and looking through various old maps it seems that Picton Street was renamed Caedraw Road.


This is a very interesting website about Merthyr Tydfil which might help in the future,

http://www.alangeorge.co.uk/old_merthyr.htm

Regards,
Daisy

[Revolution]

Hi Daisy

Fascinating! Thank you

I purchased two more certificates

Birth 22 Aug 1852 in Caedraw Ann daughter of John Dwyer and Ellen Dahill. John is a labourer. Ellen signs with an X
Birth 7 Nov 1863 Vaughan Street Merthyr Ellen the daughter of John Dawton and Catherine Fiend. John is a cinder filler in an ironworks. Catherine signs with an X. Is this my family?

[jgriffiths_94]

Hi,

I've came accross this forum while searching for family in Caedraw. I have family members who owned a lodging house on Picton Street. While searching newspaper records for my own family I came accross an article here from the Polic Courts relating to a Catherine Doyle who lived on Picton Street, possible relation? Here's a link to the article and the transcript. It also mentions the Isle of Wight.

https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3098970/3098972/

(A Bad Case) A BAn CASK.—John Rees Hopkins was chargcd 11 11 with being drunk in Bridge-street, on Monday night. —P.C. James Davies proved the case.—Tho prisoner was further charged with attempting to drown Catherine Doyle, of Picton-street, Caedraw. —On this charge the prosecutrix stated that on Monday night at 7 o'clock she heard a row in Bridge-street, and went to see what was going on. She went over the bridge towards the Little Isle of Wight, and whilst there tho prisoner came up, placed his amis around her, and threw her bodily into the feeder. She was rescued by a police-oflieer and some people who were near at the time. Her hand, arm, and leg were injured very much by the fall.—rI he prisoner said lie was running away from a police-officer, and accidentally pushed the woman into tho water.—The woman said this was untrue, as the man lift. d her up, and threw hr-r into the water. She had not had any quarrel with the man.—John llarrui said that the prisoner made a great lOW on Monday night in the locality known as Little Ido of Wight." Tho witness, continuing said This gentleman (meaning thy pri oner) was standing near the corner. — Col. Lewis 1 should call him a drunken beast, and not a gentleman.—Witness Wet!, he chucked her fair over the biidge, and said he would have his reveuge on somo old cow. —Elizabeth Griffiths, auothvr lesideut on the island," gave corroborative evidence, and P.C. James Davies said ho visited the locality to quell a disturbance. Ho heard a splash, and turning round he saw the woman in the water. The prisoner ran past witness, and went into a house. The woman went completely under the water. There were three feet of water in the feeder at the time, and a rapid current of water was running. There was a long bridge over tho feeder near by, and if the woman had been carried under that structure she would certainly have been drowned. On being charged at the police-station, the prisoner said it was an accident.—Dr. W. W. Jones said the woman's right side was covered with bruise* and she was suffering from a sprained thumb and wrist.—The charge was reduced to one of assault, and the prisoner still maintained that it was an accident, but said he had no witness to speak on his behalf. The Bench imposed a fine of 10s. and costs or 10 days for the drunkenness, and £3 and costs or a month for the assault.