Staffordshire Travellers

[Garen]

Great stuff . It seems as though my ancestors lived in houses on Smithy Lane and rarely travelled.  There is nothing on the census which says they lived in a tent , caravan and nothing that states "Romany/Gipsy/Traveller/Tinker" or such like . Was it normal for gypsy folk to be settled in the 1800's?

Smithy Lane , although a street with houses does appear to be some sort of gypsy settlement . The surnames present such as Cooper, Bond, Bloor etc as well as occupations like Besom maker, Umbrella maker , and Hawker  are extremely common.  My Neilds and Hodgkins(ons) appeared in the local papers frequently for poaching and drunken assaults .  John Neild was involved in a fist fight with a man called Grundy in which Grundy unfortunately died as a result . Im assuming this might of been a gypsy type bare knuckle bout gone wrong.

Yes indeed - that fight was on the day of John Grundy's marriage to Maria Hodgkins - afterwards (well, 4 years later) Maria married John Nield's bother, Thomas Nield, and they had a number of children together until Maria died of a breast abscess nursing her newest baby - William Nield, who was later adopted by Josiah Hodgkins (my 4xg-uncle). So many connections!

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 Hi Garen

I have been collecting all sorts of information these last few years, i have lots on the Sherriffs and Hollands plus all the ways the Hodgkiss name may be wrote, i know you are a high class researcher but i like to share things i find, i try and look for answers contained within what i find like the name of a pub or street then i just use that name alone and research it, i will put up here a few things i found about the Hodgkins/ons, that Smithy Lane is interesting to, in the papers they say about how it was a Cherry Orchard hundreds of yeares ago, that's if i found the right place? 

Happy New Year to you...michael

PS...i will put a few more things on that you may not of seen before but if you have no worry

Saturday 29 July 1848 Staffordshire Advertiser
     
extract
STAFFORDSHIRE SUMMER ASSIZES.
CROWN COURT.  THURSDAY.

The court opened nine o'clock, and the first case tried was one of a Criminal Assault on a Child at Westbromwich.
JOHN LEICESTER, a young man, described in the calendar as 20 years of age, was charged with an assault with Intent, &c., on Sarah Hoskins, at Westbromwich. the prisoner had been committed for the capital offence, but the the Grand Jury having ignored the bill, he was put upon his trial for the misdemeanor. A strong sympathetic feeling was apparent in court at the procedure's, a child about nine years of age of diminutive stature, and very meanly clad, was lifted on the barristers' table to give her testimony. The girl belonged to a gipsy encampment which, in the month of June last, was pitched in a lane near the old church, at Westbromwich. Having wandered from the tent for the purpose of picking sticks, she saw the prisoner sitting on a stile. He asked the girl to come to him, and her refusing he carried her over the stile, and proceeded to use considerable violence towards her, and afterwards ran away. Information of the outrage having been conveyed to the police, Jesse Bailer, one of the officers, went in pursuit of the offender, and in the course of the same day met with him in the neighbourhood of Westbromwich. The prisoner being told the nature of the charge of which was suspected, put on a bold front, and at once consented to go to the gipsy camp, and confront the child. On the way, however, came to stand, and said to the officer, “ I am d--d  if i will go any further with you,” and “suiting the action to the word," ran away. Baiter gave chase, and for twenty minutes followed him over hedge and ditch, until ultimately with the assistance of two men who were fishing, the prisoner was captured. being taken to the station, was identified  by the girl…………………………….

Saturday 15 December 1855 Staffordshire Advertiser
 
extract
 Child Burnt.—A serious accident happened on Thursday to a little girl, whose stepfather, named Hodgkin's, lives in Pumpstreet, Bigherland, Newcastle. He is a besom-maker, and, with his wife, had gone to the wood to get some stuff for besoms, leaving the little girl alone in the house. About noon the neighbours were alarmed by the shrieks of the child, who ran into the street with her clothes in a blaze……………………..   
   
 
Saturday 31 March 1888  Worcestershire Chronicle

extract
DEATH from EXPOSURE near EVESHAM. Mr. F. Moore (deputy coroner), held an inquest on Thursday afternoon, at Rous Leach, touching the death of Maria Boswell, tramp, aged 75, whose body was found on Monday morning in a field called Yeld Hill. Police-constable Mayo stated that the body was scantily clothed ; but deceased had a package of bread and meat lying close to her, and on her fingers were seven rings, two of which appeared to be gold ; while in her pockets was 7'd. money, some tobacco, and clay pipe. Clara Hodgkin's, travelling hawker, stated that deceased, who came from Warwick, was her mother. She last saw her eight days previously, when they were camping near Abbots Morton, and deceased strayed away during her absence…………………………...   

Staffordshire Advertiser - Saturday 27 February 1808

extract
To be sold by action, undermentioned desirable Freehold Estates,   LOT I. All that desirable Freehold Close, Piece or Parcel of excellent meadow pasture Land, situate, lying & being near to,or adjoining a certain Lane in Uttoxeter aforesaid, called Smithy Lane, known by  the name of Smithy Lane Croft, now in the occupation of John Smith

Saturday 11 December 1819 Staffordshire Advertiser
 
extract
To be sold by auction.
LOT 5. The upper or western part of a close piece of Land, called the Cherry Orchard or Smithy Lane Croft, (as now marked staked out)  N. B. Among the many opportunities which have lately presented themselves in the Town of Uttoxeter, for investment of money in real property, few have occurred equal to the present. Lots 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8, are all well stocked with a choice assortment of valuable fruit trees in full bearing. The whole of the premises are in the occupation of Mr. John Smith, Gardener…………   

Staffordshire Advertiser - Saturday 27 January 1838
 
extract
 FREEHOLD HOUSES AND LANDS, SITUATE At and  NEAR UTTOXETER, IN THE COUNTY STAFFORD. TO BE SOLD BY AUCTION,
Occupier-James Hodgkins, House in Smithy Lane, chief rent on this lot 1s. 8d.........

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Hi MeirSoul 

I do hope you are well, i recieved your message. A few posts back you wrote this below
 


  "Great stuff . It seems as though my ancestors lived in houses on Smithy Lane and rarely travelled.  There is nothing on the census which says they lived in a tent , caravan and nothing that states "Romany/Gipsy/Traveller/Tinker" or such like . Was it normal for gypsy folk to be settled in the 1800's? Smithy Lane , although a street with houses does appear to be some sort of gypsy settlement . The surnames present such as Cooper, Bond, Bloor etc as well as occupations like Besom maker, Umbrella maker , and Hawker  are extremely common.  My Neilds and Hodgkins(ons) appeared in the local papers frequently for poaching and drunken assaults" .   
 
 so i looked for you and foud this story from 1897

Uttoxeter Advertiser and Ashbourne Times Wednesday 11 August 1897

extract
UTTOXETER PETTY SESSIONS. WEDNESDAY. Before J. F. CAMPBELL Esq. (in the chair). S.   BLOUNT, S. B. BAMFORD, and A. C. BUNTING,Esqs.   ENCAMPMENT.—Jno. and Ann Neild, of Uttoxeter, was summoned for encamping on the highway at Abbots Bromley, on the 8th July.—Police.constable Austin saw the female defendant scatter the remains of a fire which had been lit by them on the highway, and then move off on his approach.—The case against Mrs. Neild was dismissed, but her husband was fined 10s. and 8s. costs............   


so you see they were not all year round living in houses, it was the summer month of July so maybe they would camp out in the warmer days and winter up as the nights drew in, plus the way they tried to hide the fire sujests they were not new to camping out for offten the police would charge people for making a fire within so many feet of the highway, you can spell their name several ways i will see if i can find anything else that may be of interst to you i put this one on below to show you about the times of the past how they connect to the times of these days we live in, it as nothing todo with the people you look for but i thought you may find such things interesting as i do when i trawl through the old records. 


Staffordshire Advertiser - Saturday 13 November 1802

extract
POSTSCRIPT. London, Thursday Evening. 
Yesterday Nield, the maniac, was removed from Tothill-fields Bridewell to Bethlem.
It is with no desire of needlesily alarming the fears of the inhabitants of this town, but with a real and anxious wish that they should adopt the most eligible means that safety are desired to state, that nearly 15000 persons have in this town and its immediate vicinity caught within the last 3 months the present contagious fever........... i just put this on to talk of how there is nothing new under the sun....i just came across the name Neild and it lead onto the story of the contagious fever.

 MeirSoul, i put this one on below to show you what the times were like, you mentioned how you old relatives would offten be in trouble with the law, the times of the past up and down these lands were hard times for people who were just living their life's, i will put a few more story's on for you if i come across anything of interest, good luck for the New Year......michael 

Staffordshire Sentinel and Commercial & General Advertiser - Saturday 20 February 1869

 extract
UTTOXETER.  WILFUL Damage.— The plate-glass window of Messrs. Cartledge, hatters, High-street, was deliberately smashed on Monday morning by two young men on tramp. They had spent the previous night in the workhouse. To effect their purpose they took a run from the opposite side of the street with their elbows directed against the glass, and broke it. They alleged being driven to the act of despair, and awaited apprehension from the police, stating that if sent to prison they would be sure of shelter and something to eat. They were miserable looking objects and almost in state of nudity...............   
 
PS. i wander if Smithy Lane changed to Smithy Road, you will find many records with the people you write of associated to this place.
 

[MeirSoul]

Sounds good . I'll look forward to your posting more info 

Regards

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MeirSoul, i have been researching your relatives and all the peoples they connect to, respect to them all and you to

https://archive.org/details/historyantiquiti00redf

HISTORY AND ANTIQUITIES of the TOWN AND NEIGHBOURHOOD  of UTTOXETER, WITH NOTICES OF ADJOINING PLACES, FRANCIS REDFERN. SECOND EDITION . 1886

Page 144

It should not be passed over, that in 1647.  46 Egyptians doubtless gypsies with a pass from parliament to travel for a space of six successive months for relief, arrived at Uttoxeter, and were given the sum of 4s. Their number and appearance must of exited considerable interest. Grants to Egyptians, or gypsies, for permission to travel and receive relief are mentioned in one of the volumes of the public record office for either 1858 or 1859,. The Constables account for Checkly for the year 1666 mentions a disbursement to a great company of gypsies.


https://cdn.staffordshire.gov.uk/pasttrack/files/55/56/869.pdf

Everything in these posts now and to come are ony small extracts, research the fuller articles in the places that i give for a far more wider in depth truer picture.

FOREWORD

One Summer's evening in 1995 I was visiting the late Colin Deaville at his home in Uttoxeter to put the finishing touches to his story for my book The Road To Chartley. While I was there Colin’s wife, Mary, introduced me to, Gwyneth Mellor, a friend who happened to be visiting. When I explained to her that I was collecting people's memories Gwyneth told me that her father Ernest Mellor, a wellknown chemist in Uttoxeter from 1910  to the 1960s, had written down his memories of Uttoxeter from the late 1800s into the 1900s. He had entrusted his notebook to a friend and colleague Arthur Finníkin for safekeeping but Miss Mellor told me she had her own copy which she said I could borrow. A few days later a photocopy of Ernest Mellor’s memories of Uttoxeter was waiting for me. When I read the memories I was amazed to find a fascinating account of life in Uttoxeter about ninety years ago. It must have been fate that brought me to visit Colin and Mary Deaville on the same night as Miss Mellor. Her father's memories might so easily have been lost. Ernest Mellor’s memories were written in the late 1950s and in them he takes us back to his schooldays in Uttoxeter in the 1880s……………….   Jim Foley Summer 2002 


page 12

At our school we had not got a yard or playground and we had to play where we could, utilizing the narrow footway that passed the school to the hall for marbles and rougher games. We had to make our own fun and we got plenty of that. For one thing the roads were not so busy. We used regularly to play 'Ringy' - marbles - in the street opposite the Wesleyan Chapel. We had to keep our eyes open - not for the Police, but for the 'Smugglers', generally two or three hefty Smithy Lads from the nearby Smithy Lane. They had their code of conduct. They never burst in without first crying "Smuggles" - then we each tried to grab what marbles we could. If we were lucky we might get more than two (our "dubs") and these would go to our less fortunate companions…………… 

Page 17

The Horse and Foal Fairs held in Balance were a real bit of Old England. Balance Street on fair days might have been a scene out of it Lavengro. It would take the pen of a George Borrow to do justice to it. There were the horses, with sellers and buyers crying the merits or demerits of the animals - then a groom or stable boy or just a hanger-on would take the halter and rush down the street to show off the paces, the action and the fire of the animal, which often pranced and kicked under the stimulus of stick or whip. Flying hooves and noise marked the day. There were always a few gypsies with their worn-out old crocks doctored to look to the unwary as quite serviceable animals. Those gypsíes were by no means lacking in vocal powers. They could almost persuade you that black was white. The mares and foals were always a delight, particularly the foals and colts………………….

Page 18

Black Bess was noted simply for herself. She was a perfect type of the old Gypsy clan - a strong old lined face that must have had an extraordinary wild beauty in her younger year's.

 Hull Daily Mail -   27 July 1907

"BLACK BESS" OF UTTOXETER DEAD.

CENTENARIAN GIPSY QUEEN. There has just died in Smithfield-road, an old lady, who for many years past has been a female with striking - features of that town, and for miles round. Her name was Elizabeth Lowell, but she was better known by the name of  " Black Bess" and " Granny Blore." Her age is given at 100 years, but it is stated those by those who had intimate acquaintance with her, that she passed- the century three years since at least. She came to Uttoxeter 80 years ago, when she was a remarkably fine specimen of the gipsy tribe, to which she claimed to belong, and was regarded as the queen in the little Romany community with whom she lived, and among whom she exercised undoubted sway. She was then tall and muscular looking, with jet black hair and flashing eyes of the same colour, and a deep brown or bronzed complexion. Latterly she traded as a vendor of brooms, oilcloth, and such-like articles, which were carried in a waggon, behind which she would' walk for several miles. She was the oldest of a family of 16.

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Uttoxeter Advertiser and Ashbourne Times - 24 July 1907
 
A sad tragedy was enacted in Smithfield road, Uttoxeter, on Friday night, when a man named George Follows cut his throat with a razor, and died on the following afternoon. On Sunday morning the man's mother-in-law, well-known locally by the sobriquet" Black Bess," attributed to her in consequence of her gipsy-like appearance, was dead in bed. Her death was due to senile decay. Much speculation has been rife as to the old woman's age, she generally having been regarded for a number of years as a centenarian. What her age was it is impossible to state, but she was old it was apparent from her wrinkled features and her worn physical bearing. She was the eldest of a family of sixteen, the youngest but one of whom is still hale and hearty, although he has just turned seventy years of age. Black Bess" used to pride herself on her gipsy antecedents. She was the mother of sixteen children. Her funeral will take place to-morrow afternoon. 
 
Burton Chronicle - 18 February 1892
 
A CHILD BURNED TO DEATH.—Particulars have been reported to the police of the death from burns,. on Tuesday afternoon, of Sarah Neild, aged two years; the child of parents residing in Chapel Gardens. It appears' that the mother went out on an errand and left the deceased in the care of Elizabeth Bloor, a relative, who lives in the Smithfield Road. The child managed to get near the fire unobserved, and its clothing becoming Ignited, it was severely burned about various parts of the body. Mr. Summers assistand to Dr, Bamford, was called in, but the infant expired at mid-day on Wednesday. An inquest will be held by Mr. Coroner Flint today. 


Burton Chronicle - 25 February 1892

uttoxeter
 
 Monday Mr. Croner Flint held a inquest in his office on the body of Sarah Neald, aged two who met her death by burns, On the date stated the child was left in the home of its grandmother, Mrs. Bloor, who lives in the Smithfield Road. Mrs. Bloor had to go on some erand in Balance Street, and accordingly left the child in the charge of her daughter, Elizabeth Bloor, aged fourteen. Elizabeth seems to have gone in her mother's absence to fetch a bucket of water from the street pump, and there stayed with some girles sliding. on returning to home she was terrified to find the child whereby its clothes had been ignited.   The Dr. attended to the little one's injuries. It, however, died in few hours later…  A verdict to that effect was returned.

On this web site below it tells of Smithfield road once being Smithfield Lane

 https://thepoorlaw.org/author/alannah-tomkins/page/2/
 

now look at this article i came across.

Staffordshire Advertiser - 22 December 1866
 
 Drunk and Riotous. Three dwellers in Smithy-lane or Smithfield-road, named John Hodgkinson, James Blore, sen., and James Blore, jun., were each fined, and each with the alternative of seven days’ imprisonment, for drunkenness and riotous conduct on the night of the 12th inst..........;   

so you see through this article above the names of Smithfield Lane and Smithfield Road were colliding in at least 1866, the family's like the Neilds Hodgkins/ons and Bloors are all related down through the years i would say from what i have been reading, also theres more names to come, who are they, well they are a fine peoples in a fine market town, no doubt the black blood runs through them all to some degree, to what amount well who am i to talk of such things, and what is the history of these times i do not know, but i suppose this is the story of the Gipsy's of England and the English peoples of this land and how the times of today came to be.

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Derbyshire Advertiser and Journal - 21 April 1871
 
Thos. Neild, alias Bloore, was summoned for drunken and riotous conduct. —It was stated that defendant was very drunk, and used very bad language, at Uttoxeter, on the 15th April at 11 p.m. Fined. this was his first offence. 
 
 Burton Chronicle - 27 July 1893

Game trespass. George Massey, John Udall and John Bloor summoned for trespass in search of rabbits, police constable Steele saw the men with three greyhounds crossing and beating the land, fined….Mushroom gatherers in trouble—Margret Udale, Elizabeth Bloor, Mary Bloor, Hannah Hodgkinson, Sarah Ann Hague, and Thom. Smith, all of Uttoxeter, were summoned for taking mushrooms, of land in the occupation of Mr. E Brandrick, at Heasley, Abbots Bromley, on the 16th, 17th, 18th, and 19:h inst. John Neild of Uttoxeter was also charged with a simular  offence, fines were imposed.       
 
Staffordshire Advertiser - 19 March 1836

SATURDAY. (Before Mr. Baron Alderson.) Fighting at Uttoxeter. John Neal was charged with the manslaughter of John Grundy at Uttoxeter on the 17th of August last. tThe prosecution called Mary Grundy, wife of Clement Grundy, of Uttoxeter, and mother-in-law of the man whose death the prisoner was charged with having caused death by certain blows. She stated that her son-inlaw was married on the 17th of August, and the wedding was kept up at the " Feathers" public house. About half-past five o'clock, the prisoner was fighting in Mr. Wood's field with Jos. Taylor, when John Grundy, the deceased came running up, and backed Taylor; upon which Neal, the prisoner, hit Grundy a blow upon the head, and he fell. Grundy immediately got up again, and began to fight with the prisoner. Many blows were struck, and they both fell several times. At length, Neal, (the prisoner) hit Grundy a blow on the side of the ear; from the effects of which he staggered several yards, fell; and was unable to rise again. He was then carried home. He never spoke afterwards, and died in the course of the night. On her cross-examination by Mr. Greaves (counsel for the prisoner) the witness stated that she had known the prisoner between 16 and 17 years: they were on friendly terms with each other, and she never knew them to have a quarrel. On the occasion in question, all the parties were drunk ; there had been a deal drinking. The prisoner was very much distressed after the occurrence. , . . , Mr. Richard Lassetter, surgeon, attended the deceased about half-past ten o'clock on night ofthe 17th of August. He was in a state of insensibility. Witness remained with him until he died, at about half-past two o'clock in the morning. Witness opened the body afterwards ; and examined the head more particularly. There was a considerable quantity extravasated blood on the right side of the head ; and discoloration all round, which attributed partly to the effects of the injuries received and partly to the struggles. He died from ruptured blood vessel. Witness believed the rupture of the vessel was caused by blows or falls coming upon an intoxicated brain. Intoxication alone would not have produced that effect. Cross-examined by Mr. Greaves.—The exertion of fighting might produce apoplexy, in a person in drunken state. There were no external marks to account for the ruptured blood vessel. Death might have occasioned by concussions from falls. Mr. Baron Alderson.—Gentlemen of the Jury, you must acquit the prisoner. Verdict, not guilty. His Lordship then admonished the prisoner, and said he had seen what were the effects of drunkenness. He advised him to take care in the future, least a worse thing should happen to him.

Lichfield Mercury - 15 February 1935
 
RUGELEY PETTY SESSIONS.   

NO NAME. Alfred Thomas Neald, dealer, of Stafford Road, Stafford, was ordered to pay 4s. costs for permitting his pony and trap to be used for trade purposes without having his name and address on the vehicle. P.s. Lawrence said an employee of defendant's was driving the cart into the Rugeley Smithfield. When charged defendant said he thought there was no necessity for his name to upon it, as it was to be sold at the sale.

 Wolverhampton Chronicle and Staffordshire Advertiser - 26 August 1835

 Fatal Fight.—On the 19th instant, an inquest was held at Uttoxeter, on John Grundy, whose death was attended with very lamentable circumstances. Monday morning he was married, and the wedding, with another which took place at the same time, was kept during the day at different public houses. In the evening several battles were fought in Smithy Lane and in a field near, and amongst others Grundy and a man named John Neald fought a considerable time, both being intoxicated; Grundy was carried off the ground insensible, and died in the course of the night. The Jury returned a verdict of manslaughter against John Neald, who was committed for trial at the next assizes.

 I put the story on about Alfred Neald from the 1930s to highlite the timescale, going into the 1900s it may be that certain people with the same name do not connect, i find as much as i can and then read through the story's, by doing this you may cross reference the content, sometimes then the story's link up not through two story's but several that each on their own are singular in content and could be overlooked, when several story's are combined a bigger picture starts to emerge.
 
 
 
 

[MeirSoul]

Uttoxeter Advertiser and Ashbourne Times -   24 July 1907
 

A sad tragedy was enacted in Smithfieldroad, Uttoxeter, on Friday night, when a man named George Follows cut his throat with a razor, and died on the following afternoon. On Sunday morning the man's mother-in-law, well-known locally by the sobriquet" Black Bess," attributed to her in consequence of her gipsy-like appearance, was dead in bed. Her death was due to senile decay. Much speculation has been rife as to the old woman's age, she generally having been regarded for a number of years as a centenarian. What her age was it is impossible to state, but thet she was old was apparent from her wrinkled features and her worn physical bearing. She was the eldest of a family of sixteen, the youngest but one of whom is still hale and hearty, although he has just turned seventy years of age. Black Bess" used to pride herself on her gipsy antecedents. She was the mother of sixteen children. Her funeral will take place to-morrow afternoon. 
 
Burton Chronicle - Thursday 18 February 1892
 extract

A CHILD BURNED TO DEATH.—Particulars have been reported to the police of the death from burns,. on Tuesday efternoon, of Sarah Neild, aged two years; the child of parents residing in Chapel Gardens. It appear' that the mother went out on an errand and left the deceased in the care of Elizabeth Bloor, a relative, who lives in the Smithfield Road. The child managed to get near the fire unobserved, and its clothing becoming Ignited, it was severely burned about various parts of the body. Mr. Summers assistand to Dr, Bamford, was called in, but the infant expired at mid-day on Wednesday. An inquest will be held by Mr. Coroner Flint today (Thoredity). 


Burton Chronicle - Thursday 25 February 1892

uttoxeter
 
 Monday Mr. Croner Flint held a inquest in his office on the body of Sarah Neald, aged two  who met her death by burns, On the date stated the child was left in the home of its grandmother, Mrs. Bloor, who lives in the Smithfield Road. Mrs. Bloor had to go on some erand in Balance Street, and accordingly left the child in the charge of her daughter, Elizabeth Bloor, aged fourteen. Elizabeth seems to have gone in her mother's absence to fetch a bucket of water from the street pump, and there stayed with some girles sliding. on returning to home she was terrified to find the child whereby its clothes had been ignited….   The Dr. attended to the little one's injuries. It, however, died in few hours later…  A verdict to that effect was returned.

On this web site below it tells of Smithfield road once being Smithfield Lane

 https://thepoorlaw.org/author/alannah-tomkins/page/2/
 

now look at this article i came across.

Staffordshire Advertiser - Saturday 22 December 1866
 
 Drunk and Riotous. Three dwellers in Smithy-lane or Smithfield-road, named John Hodgkinson, James Blore, sen., and James Blore, jun., were each fined, each and with the alternative of seven days’ imprisonment, for drunkenness and riotous conduct on the night of the 12th inst..........;   

so you see through this article above the names of Smithfield Lane and Smithfield Road were coliding in at least 1866, the familys like the Neilds Hodgkins/ons and Bloors are all related down through the years, theres more names to come soon to, who are they, well they are a fine peoples in a fine market town being wrote about in this day by people who respect them, no doubt the black blood runs through them all, to what amount well who am i to talk of such things, and what is the history of these times i do not know, but i suppose this is the story of the Gipsies of England and the English peoples of this land we call our home, so now long may their story be told by people who try to tell the true story, Elik told of the one drop, He said one drop is anough, respect to Elik . r.i.p and respect to all the peoples i write of. There is much more to come ......

Thanks for the info . I love reading these kinds of things and find them absolutely fascinating.  Am I right in assuming Elizabeth Blore as mentioned above was "Black Bess" , the grand mother of the child Sarah Neild ?

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 i think you have to work through what you have got, to be truthfull on most records there will be a good load of lies but the thing with the police, well they are trained diggers, they get better as their yeares go on and  train their knowledge to their own, the census people and church record people just shrug their shoulders and write a name down as in their own way of spelling, i was talking to a priest once from Ireland and he was telling me why that down through several generations of a family the way a name can be spelt changed, he told of the old priests from those times and how each one of them may have been educated in spelling slightly different from each other, plus the person telling you a name may say it in a way that effects the written translation, there are several reasons, the police court people got to know family's through generations and could tell other police station from York to London things of interest, you will find far more truth in the courts than the other records, you may find a Neild in Uttoxeter in the 1900s that may not link up to Nields from the 1800s, this could be true, yet i have come to understand that it only takes a generation or so for family truths to be forgotten, family's may sometimes drift apart, in the times that follow connections are lost and members of distant relatives then just become someone with a name like the ones you are looking for, plus other names join for whatever reason, combine this with the false information that maybe contained for what ever reason in other records and a perfect storm is high on the horizon, so in answer to your question about whether Elizabeth is the Grandmother to Sarah, well i do not know, i just collect as much as i can and cross-refferance such information, real researcher then go on to combine census reports and parish records, these are the real deal historians of facts, i am just me enjoying the moment, sometimes i stumble on to things and people write to me and say thankyou, but to be truthfull offten the story's just find me, i don't evan know what I'm doing, the education of this learning as helped me understand the bigger picture of life and how life is so short in one lifetime is only a lifetime, the moment should be cherished the past should be respected and learned from, the future, well what of the future we all have that in our own hands, some let it go some are very unlucky, some have the greatest of luck to, best not to think to much just Cherish the moment for the story's i have come to read and learn from show me that no matter how sad or great a persons life is well its all over in a flicker as generations just come and go and overlap each other, its best to be happy i would say and try hard not to judge people to much, to make allowance's for yourself and others is a ritch trait that when found leads you on a newborn road of self discovery, i will put more on soon to try and help anyone who reads these writings, its up to them then to go through the process then of the cross-refferance times, i just like to know of everything thoe, Uttoxeter the Market Town and all the peoples are in the links i put up, read them and find new links, then you mind will have a far scope in knowledge, its enjoyable to, you do not have to be right as a researcher, for evan when facts are not joined they will still be facts you can never be wrong or bad by trying, a good strong high class  researcher would understand this, i will put some more story's up soon, remember just log on to the Newspaper Archives, there are people on that web site who will answer any questions and help you in a nice friendly way, you can find photos and they will help you get a clean copy for your own collection, it only costs a few pound to join and if you are a person trying to get on the ladder of researching well the first stop should be the Newspaper Archives, then with the knowedge of story's join then Ancestry and find the records they possess, i found a new photo of one of the Hollands or Sherriffs or Hodkin-sons, i forgot which one now but when i go back through my finding i will put it up, i found lots of photos of Gipsy's down the yeares i have put lots on on here, i must keep doing this for everyone loves a photo.