Thomas Burrell, Private Marine, Kent

[Soubeyran]

Hi all, many thanks for the info!

I have to get ready for work, but to quickly summarise how I see it, there are 2 Thomas Burrells in question, 1 born in Galway, the other in Armagh: I may be able to get more information about the latter from the same source as I got info about the Galway Thomas. It would also be handy if his discharge record could be found.

The discrepancy in age/birth date in the Thomas living with Elizabeth in 1851 can be accounted for age given in the 1851 census being to the nearest 5 years for adults, lower age.

The army Galway Thomas enlisted in Plymouth, which is where Elizabeth was born. I think I have a possible father who worked in the dockyard.

I got the Galway birthplace from a transcript/image of an 1841 inpatient record for a Thomas Burrell at Greenwich Hospital: incorrectly transcribed as Denmure (no such place), actually Dunmore, Galway, which matches up with the St Nicholas Parish. Gives his occupation as clerk, last ship HMS Beagle, which also matches up: Beagle was originally launched May 1820, but only used once -" July of that year she took part in a fleet review celebrating the coronation of King George IV of the United Kingdom, and for that occasion is said to have been the first ship to sail under the old London Bridge" (Wikipedia) - after that she "lay in ordinary" until being refitted as a barque for expeditions.

All this has made my head spin: I've started putting data into a spreadsheet so info for the 21 or 3 Thomases can be compared!

See you later, Graeme

[Kevin Burrell]

DaisyPetal - to answer your other questions...

Yes, Thomas Burrell (marine) married Elizabeth Lamb on 7th June 1822 at St James Westminster.

Thomas Jnr went on to marry Hannah Lombard with 4 (that I have found) children - including another Thomas Burrell (who went on to marry Emma Mills, father 12 children, including a Thomas Burrell who was my Grand Father and another son who was, I suspect Soubeyran's Grandfather if he is indeed the Graeme I have conversed with on Ancestry:0)

Since starting to look at my family tree a couple of years ago I have found over 100 living relatives I never previously knew about just looking at the Burrell line - something similar on my mothers side - for both Parks and Starlings - and have had the pleasure of conversing with 2 second cousins I would never have known if these web sites did not exist. In fact I also found out that my father has 2 cousins still living not that far from him, but at 83 I think he feels it is too late to contact them now as they have been out of contact since he was around 14 (but I keep trying)

Am dreading going back to my paternal grand mothers line as she was a Wallace from Gateshead - though I found her family in the census - I checked just one of her brothers birth registrations - a William Wallace and found 42 such people born in the same year in the Gateshead area alone - I didn't bother looking any further on line and think I need to find work up in Newcastle to have any chance there!!

[Regorian]

'Beagle', wasn't that the ship that took Charles Darwin to discover the origin of species? 

[Kevin Burrell]

I assume it was the same ship as the Beagles voyages started in 1826 with Darwin's being its second voyage in 1831 - sadly after my relative had left the ship - though looking at Wikipedia he may have been on the ship when she was the first to sail under the old London Bridge in July 1820 - a smaller claim to fame!... assuming Wikipedia is correct of course!!

[Soubeyran]

Hi Kev & Daisy!

I saw the Westminster marriage, but had pretty much discounted that as an unlikely parish/church for a private/marine to get married in. I found (what I think is) a more likely candidate: a Thomas Burrell married an Elizabeth Pardew in Greenwich in 1823, I think. It was unusual for ordinary ranks of sailors/marines to get married, Greenwich is the next parish along, and there is an Elizabeth Pardew born in Plymouth, where Thomas' wife came from, & where Thomas enlisted. And I think I found a relative (father or uncle) of that Elizabeth who worked in the Plymouth dockyard. Although it was unusual for ordinary ranks to be married, it wasn't unusual to have partners & children. I think I found a daughter Mary that also seems to 'fit'.

Experience tells me the Armagh Thomas shouldn't be discounted, but I suspect he may be a red herring as the Galway Thomas ticks a lot of boxes. I suspect Kevin **& I missed him because of the spelling.

I'll post again once I've collated everything I've got on the 2 (or 3) Thomases. :-)

Graeme

PS Kevin, I spoke to my aunt June, & she'd love to hear from your dad!
If Thomas was in the army but spent a long time assigned to ships, that possibly explains why he applied to both Chelsea & Woolwich hospitals.

[Soubeyran]

Oh yes, it was the Darwin Beagle! It never saw service as a fighting ship as it was completed after the Bonaparte thing was over. It seems to have made only 1 voyage - leading a flotilla under London Bridge, I got that from a reliable source. It was then put 'in storage' as I said, docked with its masts/sails removed, before being converted to a barque a few years later for exploration purposes.

Darwin's voyage was the second one.. it did a third voyage, then was kitted out as a light ship, before finally being broken up. It wold possibly have been 'saved' had Darwin not delayed publishing 'origins of species'!

BTW I have a photograph of the actual log that shows his last ship, so if we have the right Tomas there's no doubt. :-)

[Kevin Burrell]

There are too many damn Thomas Burrell's!! Still  I suppose we could have been called Smith - and I don't think I have helped matters calling my son Thomas either:0)

[Kevin Burrell]

I must admit the only reason I assumed the Elizabeth Lamb marriage was the correct one was because the Woolwich baptism record I found for Thomas with Thomas (as a private marine) and Elizabeth as parents lists his birth as 13th December 1823 which fitted in better with that marriage than one in 1825 - but that said I agree with your thoughts on location - and to be fair there is a Banns record for the day before this marriage that identified both Thomas & Elizabeth as being born in 1801 which I have conveniently forgotten about. What is the betting that there were 2 Thomas Burrell's from Ireland who were both marines, and they both married an Elizabeth and both had a son named Thomas

[Soubeyran]

Yes Kevin, was beginning to think that myself! 2 Thomases from Galway, born similar years with wife Elizabeth/son Thomas: Elizabeth was a common name I think at the time, also seems a Burrell tradition (in our line at least!) to name son after father!

I'd also 'forgotten' that the Thomas you found the discharge papers for served with the 11th Foot for 9 years, but the one I have a photo of the Woolwich Hospital record for served for 20 years! Mind you he was definitely a marine, as confirmed by another enquiry I posted here: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=712107.msg5556868#msg5556868

It gives him having a boy and a girl which matches my supposition that they had a daughter Mary, and there's a question mark against married which suggests both our married records may be incorrect: as I said it was 'normal' for sailors/marines apart from officers not to get married.

It also gives his age as 56, which makes his birth year c. 1785, and I've just realised that his address is Cartright St Tower Hill, so I think we need to search for 'the other Elizabeth' there in the 1841 census!

I still think there's circumstantial evidence to suggest the Greenwich marriage Elizabeth might be 'our' Elizabeth, because of the link to Plymouth.. oh, and I've just realised I saw somthing about the 11th Foot recruiting in Galway in the early 19th century.

This particular conundrum is getting a bit complex, with evidence all over the place: I saw an app/some software on Twitter mentioned a few days ago that an writer/director uses for collaboration with other artists, using a 'wall' you pin documents & pictures on. I'll check it out & see if we could use it to put all Thomas' documents in one place! :-)

Speak later.

G