Author Topic: BBC 1 WDYTYA: Series 11, Episode 4, Brendan O'Carroll  (Read 18164 times)

Offline Blue70

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Re: BBC 1 WDYTYA: Series 11, Episode 4, Brendan O'Carroll
« Reply #27 on: Friday 29 August 14 11:11 BST (UK) »
Lots of Irish people like looking into this part of their history because these times helped to create their country. It's part of the national narrative in the Republic of Ireland. The old IRA were seen as freedom fighters and the secret war was seen as just because of the refusal by the British of some form of home rule or independence for the Irish when there was a majority wish for it. The conflict shouldn't have happened. Partition at an earlier date should have happened that would have satisfied most of the people, most nationalists and unionists.


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Offline ChrissieL

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Re: BBC 1 WDYTYA: Series 11, Episode 4, Brendan O'Carroll
« Reply #28 on: Friday 29 August 14 11:58 BST (UK) »
I wasn't keen on this episode.  I thought it was too political and very specific to Brendan O'Carroll.  Not particularly useful for those who want general information on tracing their family history.
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Offline sallyyorks

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Re: BBC 1 WDYTYA: Series 11, Episode 4, Brendan O'Carroll
« Reply #29 on: Friday 29 August 14 12:50 BST (UK) »
Didn't watch it.
I'm afraid I'm getting tired of Irish social/political history on the BBC version of WDYTYA . I would prefer to see more British social history, especially about the English working class and their struggles.  A subject that has hardly been covered at all.

Offline fraser1

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Re: BBC 1 WDYTYA: Series 11, Episode 4, Brendan O'Carroll
« Reply #30 on: Friday 29 August 14 13:07 BST (UK) »
I watched programme right through but nearly switched off.

It might well be just me after a busy day.  I found myself asking questions - what information did we learn of his grandfather.  Newspapers kept showing him as an invalid, what was his connection to the IRA (we did get some information from his obituary) why put on your trousers and socks and carry your boots downstairs, was he expecting a visit from IRA comrades, (I think it would have been possible to be out during curfew) At time I would have looked out the window to see who was knocking at the door.  How much credence can we have in evidence given so much later?

Maybe I watch too many crime stories to be convinced.  Is there someone who thinks this would stand up in a court of law?

Sandra


Offline jaywit

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Re: BBC 1 WDYTYA: Series 11, Episode 4, Brendan O'Carroll
« Reply #31 on: Friday 29 August 14 13:17 BST (UK) »
These days the bullet could be traced, but back then nothing like that.

 It was such a murky, dirty time that who ever did it did their best to lay the blame on the other side.

You don't know if Peter suspected someone either friend or foe would possibly come to the shop that night and he was half prepared to go out himself.
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Offline bibliotaphist

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Re: BBC 1 WDYTYA: Series 11, Episode 4, Brendan O'Carroll
« Reply #32 on: Friday 29 August 14 14:14 BST (UK) »
Not sure if it's appropriate to add it here, but a MOOC from Trinity college of this period in Irish History starts on Monday.

https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/irish-history

Thanks; well spotted!

Offline nospringchicken

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Re: BBC 1 WDYTYA: Series 11, Episode 4, Brendan O'Carroll
« Reply #33 on: Friday 29 August 14 14:19 BST (UK) »
According to The Genealogist, Brendan O'Carroll's father, Gerard, then aged 10, was also badly injured in the Peter O'Carroll shooting https://www.thegenealogist.co.uk/featuredarticles/2014/who-do-you-think-you-are/brendan-ocarroll-149/

http://www.cairogang.com/escaped/hardy/hardy.html
Scroll down to see this information. The information appears to have been gathered by David Grant who runs the Cairo Gang website. http://www.davidgrant.org/david-grant/david_grant.htm David Grant asked for info on Jocelyn Lee Hardy on Rootschat in 2010.

'1920 Oct 16. Mr Peter O’Carroll was shot dead by the Military at his home in Manor Street Dublin. Dave Nelligan in WS380 cites Collins as saying they should "Concentrate on Hardy" as the perpetrator. Though clearly Peter O'carroll was not a senile old man, as his son's WS314 says his father was in Irish Republican Brotherhood and bought arms from British soldiers ...

'At 1.50am Peter O’Carroll and his wife Annie were awoken by a heavy knock on the front door of their home at 92 Manor Street. Mr. O’Carroll got out of bed and put on for his trousers and stockings. A night-time military curfew was in place in Dublin and the family was accustomed to such late night intrusions. Two of the O’Carroll’s seven children were members of the IRA: Liam was Adjutant of the 1st Battalion of the Dublin Brigade, while Peter Jnr was a member of ‘A’ Company of the same Battalion. Mrs O'Carroll later said that this raid was unusual in that there were only 2 or 3 men outside, rather than the lorry load who turned up on other raids. Peter O'carroll went to open the door, there was a thud then silence. When Mrs O'Carroll went down to investigate, she found her husband close to death. He had been shot once in the side of the head. There was no evidence of a struggle. The murderers pinned a note to his chest purporting to be from the IRA and claiming the murder. Peter O’Carroll had in fact been murdered by members of the Auxiliary Division of the RIC ...

'WS755. The full significance of the presence and activity of that 'Murder Gang" was illustrated by the perpetration of the slaying of Mr. O'Carroll. of: Manor St. One of his sons, Liam, was Adjutant of our (1st) Battalion; another, Peter, was a member of "A" Coy of the same Battalion. Not finding the boys at home, the. "Murder Gang" struck at the father

'WS 314 and WS594. Of Liam O'Carroll says My father and his father were members of the Irish Republican Brotherhood. Through my father, I became associated with the Nationalist Movement. ... We had a fair number of Lee Enfields. We were buying them at that time from British Army men. As a matter of fact, my father bought quite a quantity. He had a shop in Manor Street. These fellows, when they wanted a few drinks, would take anything out of the Barracks. The usual thing was that they would bring a parcel around; and he would give them five shillings in any case; it might be a pair of old boots; it might be two .45's. On one occasion, there was delivered to him a lorry load of petrol in two-gallon tins.

'WS380 Dave Nelligan (DMP Special Branch and IRA spy in Dublin Castle) An old man named, Carroll kept a locksmith's shop in Stoneybatter, a working-class quarter of the city. He had two sons, active Volunteers. Carroll had a visit from a British Army officer who warned him that if his sons did not surrender at the Castle before a given date he would be shot. Carroll. was found shot dead in his shop later. On his body was pinned a card: "Spies beware, I.R.A.". Tobin brought me a slip of paper and on it was written in Collins' writing: "Concentrate on Hardy". That was the name of the killer. MacNamara and myself knew this man well. Re was an Orangeman, with an artificial leg, on the Castle garrison and was an Intelligence Officer in the Auxiliaries and a very hostile killer ...

http://www.cairogang.com/murdered-men/angliss.html
Similarly scroll down for information on the murder of John Lynch.

'1920 Sept 23. John Lynch, a legal clerk carrying a large sum of money to Collins, was murdered in his hotel bed in the Exchange Hotel in Dublin by the Cairo Gang. Apparently Lt. Angliss, under the influence of drink, divulged his participation in the execution to a girl who inadvertently passed this information to an IIS informant. The porter at the hotel said

'...soldiers came to the door of the hotel at two o'clock in the morning, asked to see the register, looked for a name and went to room number six. They left. Nobody heard any sound. And some half hour or so afterwards two policemen came and knocked at the hotel and said to the night clerk: "We are going to guard room number six, where a man lies dying. The military told us to come here." All the next day they stood guard at that room, and did not even admit the proprietor of the hotel into that room. They supposed the man was dying. He was shot in the throat. The military held the inquest.'

Offline Romilly

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Re: BBC 1 WDYTYA: Series 11, Episode 4, Brendan O'Carroll
« Reply #34 on: Friday 29 August 14 17:38 BST (UK) »
Not sure if it's appropriate to add it here, but a MOOC from Trinity college of this period in Irish History starts on Monday.
https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/irish-history
Thanks; well spotted!

I've signed up for this.

Re: This episode of WDYTYA, - I found it very dull...

I was disappointed that it didn't have more about the ADRIC, - (My late Uncle was in 'Q' Division). And if Brendan O'Carroll wanted to know about it so badly, - why didn't he Google about it? (There's lots about it available).

Btw, - I've been trying to find the Armstrong and Miller spoof clip about WDYTYA, - it doesn't seem to want to play anymore:-(
Can anyone else on here resurrect it please??

Romilly.
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Offline Finley 1

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Re: BBC 1 WDYTYA: Series 11, Episode 4, Brendan O'Carroll
« Reply #35 on: Friday 29 August 14 17:58 BST (UK) »