France

[Janine James]

How do I trace someone born in France? The only info I have about my paternal grandmother is her name, date of birth and that she was born in France, may be Normandy.

[ballydw]

How do I trace someone born in France? The only info I have about my paternal grandmother is her name, date of birth and that she was born in France, may be Normandy.

Hello & welcome to Rootschat. Can you post the details i.e name, dob etc and someone may be able to help. What evidence have you to suggest Normandy?

[GrahamSimons]

You may get some help (as I have) by posting on www.genealogie.com - but you'll be well-advised to post in French rather than English.

[Janine James]

My father dies when I was 11 months old so all I know is what my mother told me. She said my great grandparents come from Normandy and that one of them was a chief/cook at a chateau. I have discovered they came over here between 1901 and 1911 by checking census. Her name Emilie Coulette born 1861 he was Gustave Coulette born 1886 and they had 3 children. I just don't know where to start in French records.     

[jorose]

You will need to narrow down the place first.  There are no national BMDs and "Normandy" covers five departments (each with separate archives, and most archives don't have name-searchable indexes).

It is possible Gustave married in London and then returned to France
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/2DR5-MZZ
Gustave Desire Coulette
possible spouse
Emilie Kaetzel

Searching on these names shows this (may need a free geneanet account)
http://gw.geneanet.org/aportaz?lang=fr;p=gustave+desire;n=coulette
Which shows a daughter Madeline b. 17e Paris in 1890.

Paris is split into 20 arrondissements ("Paris" families may also sometimes be found in the suburbs surrounding - these records are then in different archives).  The archives for Paris proper are online:
http://canadp-archivesenligne.paris.fr/archives_etat_civil/index.php

 accédez aux tables décennales gives you access to the "ten year indexes".  There will be one set for each  arrondissement.  Names are in alphabetical order although in some records the definition of "alphabetical" is a little loose.

In the indexes for 17e from 1883 to 1892 I find:
24 April 1890 - birth of Madeline Louise Coulette
also
1 April 1884 - marriage of Gustave Desire (transcription)

Transcriptions of marriages were records for marriages that took place elsewhere.
This one shows that in 1884 Gustave Desire Coulette and Emilie Kaetzel, residing in 17e Paris, presented their original marriage certificate from England and a translation, which shows they married 22 Dec 1881 at the St. Hanover Square register office.

Gustave Desire Coulette, aged 31, a chef (cuisinier), son of the late Gustave Coulette, dealer, residing at 32 Grosvenor Gardens.
Emilie Kaetzel, aged 21, without occupation, daughter of the late Jean Kaetzel, dealer, also residing at 32 Grosvenor Gardens.

Witnesses were a Louise George and "S. Coulette".

Madeline Louise Coulette's birth doesn't reveal much more info as to her father's origins, unfortunately.  He does gain an extra first name, "Marie Gustave Desire".  (This isn't unusual).

http://www.geneaservice.com
 - looking on here, it appears that at some point son Gustave Pierre Coulette was on French electoral rolls giving his birthplace as Levallois  (Levallois-Perret).
 - also a possible reference to a Suzanne Jeanne Coulette b. Chantilly, Oise in 1885 and married in Havre.

Levallois-Perret is one of those Paris suburbs where the records aren't held in "Paris".  Hauts-de-Siene is the archive:
http://archives.hauts-de-seine.net/archives/rechercher/archives-en-ligne/
(this one is a right sod to use)

Gustave Pierre Coulette was born there 4 August 1886.  His father is "Gustave Marie Desire" Coulette.

Finally, Suzanne Jeanne Coulette was born in Chantilly, Oise.  Their archives are here: http://archives.oise.fr/archives-en-ligne/etat-civil/ (will need free account)
Father is just "Gustave Coulette" here.  Address possibly Grand Ecuries
Marginal notes on the birth show she married in Havre in 1913 to Pierre Mignon and died in Rouen in 1963.

The family are still there on the census of 1886, page 4, although this doesn't show much (no birthplaces on this census) - just that Suzanne was the only child in the household.  They were not at the Chateau

For her marriage we need to go to yet another archive site: http://recherche.archivesdepartementales76.net/

Luckily, the marriages are online for 1913 (quite a few sites have nothing past 1912)
At her marriage, Suzanne's parents are listed as Gustave Coulette, Maître d'hôtel, and Emilie Kaeztel, both residing in London, both present at the marriage.

I cannot see Gustave or Emilie's deaths in the UK - if they returned to France and died there, there's a chance that those records will give information about Gustave's parents and place of birth (if the person registering the death knew them).

[jorose]

I may have found Gustave in Oise.
http://www.geopatronyme.com showed that Oise was a location with lots of Coulettes.
and http://www.geneanet.org had a reference (locked) to some event in 1850 in Montataire with a Gustave Coulette.

All the following is from: http://archives.oise.fr/archives-en-ligne/etat-civil/

A birth:
Marie Gustave Desire Coulette, b. 8 July 1850 Montataire
Father is listed as Pierre Coulette, aged 39, débitant d'eau-de-vie  (a seller of eau de vie/brandy).  Mother Francoise Beaufils, aged 29, his wife.

His parents married 26 June 1849 in the same location.  The record is slightly water damaged.
Pierre Coulette, born 4 October 1810 was a widower, his wife Marie Catherine Navellier had died on the 12th May of the same year.  His father was the late Antoine Coulette (died Montataire 22 Feb 1837), his mother the late Marie Jeanne Debate (died 30 Jan 1843)
Francoise Beaufils, aged 28 years 9 months 23 days, residing in Montataire since the first of May, previously residing at Versailles, born 30 Sep 1820 at Pougeus (Nievre).  Widow of Leonard Trolet (not sure on surname), died at Denain (Nord) 18 March 1848, daughter of the late Jean Beaufils, died at Garchizy-Fourchambault (Nievre) 23 Feb (1849), and the late Francoise N? (surname lost in margin), died at Nevers (Nievre) 9 June 1837.

Witnesses include Louis Francois Coulette, 43, brother of the groom, and Jean Chauve, 35, brother in law of the bride.

(Let it never be said French marriage records are lacking in information!)

[Janine James]

Thank you for this info/ It's probable that they are my great grandparents. The DOB is 1 year out for Madeleine, Emilie and Gustave on the 1911 census, including the fact that Gustave was a chef. ! thing my mother told me was that, on my fathers side, they Huguenot refugees. I only met my grandparents once and I was under 10 at the time. Once again thank yo both for the info.

[emmsthheight]

Hi

Welcome again to Rootschat!  What a fascinating post.  It looks as if there's more on the net than I realised.

It's inspired me to have another go at my own French ancestors.

I'll have a lok at all the amazing help I was given before and have another go.

Thank you again for sharing all that.

Best wishes

Emms 

[Janine James]

Thanks to rootschat and the advice I was given I have found a whole side to my family I did not know about. I have also been in touch with a relative in France via geneanet and he is now able to fill in the English side of his tree.