1841 Census: Countries of Birth

[ktk8]

Hi, I've been investigating my ancestor George Glennie, who was married in 1801 in Horsham, Sussex, and by 1841 living in Deptford, Kent.

The census translation has his country of birth as Ireland. I wonder if someone would be so kind as to see if they come to the same conclusion? I originally thought it was Scotland - swayed by the Aberdeenshire name of Glennie, and that the family is non-conformist. (HO107; 488; 4; 33; 11)

His son, George Andrew Glennie, was baptised in Deptford in 1816, but notes on his baptism record say he was born in Syracuse, Sicily, in 1810.

However, the 1841 census for George Andrew Glennie, appears to show his country of birth as Ireland.  Again, I'd be grateful for a 2nd pair of eyes.  Baptism record aside, it seems unlikely to me that he was born back in Ireland, after his father's journeys across countries. (HO107; 1051; 8; 31; 11)

Unfortunately, both Georges died in the 1840's, so I can find no further info.

By the by, if anyone has any idea of what (presumably) both George and his wife would have been up to in Syracuse at that time, I would be delighted to hear!

Many thanks

[avm228]

It looks to me as though George Andrew Glennie was not baptised in 1816, but was registered by the Wesleyan Methodists on 23 April 1816 as having been baptised on 2 Sep 1810 "by a minister in the Army".  This may be a clue to his father's reason for being in Sicily.

The entry above is for the baptism of his Deptford-born brother William John, which may have prompted the "registration" of George's much earlier baptism.

I see that the next entry is for a girl born in Guernsey in 1799, baptised in 1799 and "registered" on 23 April 1816.

[avm228]

Based on the enumerator's handwriting, and particularly the capital S letters on adjacent pages (for Sarah, Susanna etc) i would say that George Glennie's birthplace is S for Scotland.

[davidft]

I cannot decide whether it is S for Scotland or I for Ireland even after comparing it with other letters on the same page. However, I did notice on the preceding pages there are a number of people born in either Scotland or Ireland and it may be worth following them to 1851 to see which turn out to be Scotland and which Ireland and that may help with your chap.

As to what they were doing there as one of the records someone else found mentions the army I would think this is a good bet. The army was active in sicily in this period as the following indicates

The Bourbon kings officially resided in Naples, except for a brief period during the Napoleonic Wars between 1806 and 1815, when the royal family lived in exile in Palermo. The Sicilian nobles welcomed British military intervention during this period and a new constitution was developed specifically for Sicily based on the Westminster model of government. The British were committed to preserving the security of the Kingdom of Sicily for the sake of keeping Mediterranean Sea naval operations open against the French. The British dispatched several expeditions of troops between 1806 and 1815 is mentioned and built strong fortifications around Mess

If he was indeed in the army you could then look to see if there are any army records that give more information on him

[GR2]

A grandfather of mine from Turriff in Aberdeenshire joined the army in Aberdeen in 1807. Although from the north east of Scotland, he served with the 10th Regiment of Foot, which was Lincolnshire- based. He served in Sicily from 1808 and then went to Spain with his regiment. His wife went out with him and they had a son born in Messina, Sicily. Your man must have been in the army too.

[GR2]

I have had a look on a certain site that starts with F, and the only George Glennie of the correct period is Sergeant George Glennie of the 8th Bn. Royal Regiment of Artillery. He was born in Kinellar, Aberdeenshire, served 15 years 7 months, and was discharged 0n 30th April 1814, aged 36. His occupation is given as labourer and he received a pension of one and sixpence halfpenny a day from 1st May 1814. There is a description of him, but no indication of where he served.

[GR2]

The George Glennie, gardener, who was living in Evelyn Street, Deptford, in 1841 was definitely born in Scotland.

[ktk8]

Wow, many thanks to you all for all your information! I'm glad I followed my hunch that something was wrong with the Ireland transcription...

All the evidence now fits together like a dream - Marriage in Horsham (1801), where, from what I can gather, there appears to have been a military training base.

I note the 8th Battalion wasn't formed until 1803, but a quick search found a history of the Royal Regiment of Artillery, which states that the No 2 Company of the 8th Bn was indeed in Sicily from 1807-1815, which fits the birth of George Andrew. ( https://archive.org/stream/historyofroyalre02duncuoft/historyofroyalre02duncuoft_djvu.txt )

Then, his discharge is from the base of the 8th in Woolwich, just down the road from where he ended up in Deptford.

How wonderful to make sense of the story, to have his army particulars, and following on, to know I may be able to carry on the research into his ancestry in Kinellar.

Does anyone know if records were kept by Army Ministers?

I can only presume the recording of George Andrew in the 1841 census as being born in Ireland was an error.