BARNES

[ianhb]

The children of the family still elude me.
William Henry (Harry)  had older brothers and sisters Cara b 1905  who later moved to Eardisley in 1915.Agnes , Grace b 1917 Violet b 1915  Beattie and Fred to name some of them.
Where were they living initially?
Who were their parents?

In the 1881 census Margaret Barnes is daughter of Priscilla Brush and lives in Nursey Cottage Clifford. Who was her husband as she was a widow at 26 years of age? When did she marry and where?
What happened to John William Barnes her other son born in 1881?
Thanks for the help to date.

Well Sue, you are providing me with wonderful information and I am very grateful.
It  is interesting, perhaps there was a death in the Haywood family as Clara b 1890 lived with William in Brilley by 1905?
Is there any mention of Thomas Barnes dob and his parents in earlier census returns? (married 1873 Bedwelty.)
Does John Haywood/Barnes feature any where in the 1901 census?
This might lead to unknown family  members being recognized later in the 20th century.

[bagpuss]

Hi there,

Could this be them in Wales in 1901?

1901

The Allt, Llanigon, Breconshire

William James Barnes   25   Head   Mar   Carter on Farm   Herefordshire, Clifford
Margaretta Barnes      21   Wife    Mar                          Herefordshire, Cusop
Annie M Barnes            2   Daur                                  Radnorshire, Clyro

                                     (RG13/ 5178/ 15/ 7)

If so, this entry in the GRO Marriage Index would fit in  -

1899 - Marriage
     William Barnes to Margaretta Howells
     Volume - 11b   Page - 137
     Quarter - March
     District - Hay

Will try to find them on previous censuses to try and identify their parents.

Regards
Sue     

[bagpuss]

Hi again,

Have found the same couple on the 1891 & 1881 censuses which might help shed a bit more light on the matter. (Not absolutely sure of William in 1891, but is only closest match I can find) -

1891

Skerril Farm, Kentchurch

William Barnes   18   Serv   Single   Ag, Farm Labourer    Herefordshire

                   (RG12/ 2065/ 57/ 10)

1891

New Forest Cottage, Hay, Breconshire

Henry Howells        51   Head   Mar   General Labourer      Radnor, Clyro
Elizabeth Howells    46   Wife    Mar                               Radnor, Glascwm
Price Howells          14   Son                                        Brecon, Glasbury
Margretta Howells   11   Daur                                        Hereford, Cusop
Alfred Howells          8   Son                                         Brecon, Hay
 
                  (RG12/ 4580/ 42/ 2)

1881

Nursery Cottage, Clifford

Priscilla Brush         60   Head      Wid   Labouring woman       Herefordshire, Clifford
John Price             35   Son        Un     Labourer General            ''                 ''
Margaret Barnes     26   Daur       Wid   Serv. Domestic          Herefordshire, Dorstone
Jane Brush            20   Daur        Un       ''           ''                   ''             Clifford
Wm. James Barnes   6   Grandson          Scholar                    Monmouthshire, Tredegar
John Wm. Barnes     2m  Grandson                                      Herefordshire, Clifford
         
                         (RG11/ 5470/ 139/ 21)

1881

The Bage, Dorstone, Herefordshire

Henry Howells        57   Head   Mar     Ag. Lab                  Radnorshire, Clyro
Elizabeth Howells   45   Wife    Mar                                 Radnorshire, Glascombe
Hannah Howells     13   Daur                                          Herefordshire, Dorstone
William Howells      11   Son                                                    ''                ''
Elizabeth Howells    9    Son                                           Breconshire, Glasbury
Price Howells         4    Son                                                   ''               ''
Margaritta Howells  2    Daur                                          Herefordshire, Cusop

                    (RG11/ 5470/ 89/ 7)

Hope these help
Sue                                             
 

[bagpuss]

Hello again Ian,

If you send for William's marriage certificate it will give you the name of his father.  You can do this online at -

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificate/index.asp#0

I have found a possibility in the index for a marriage (William's mother & father?) -

Margaret Brush to Thomas Barnes
     1873   Volume - 11a   Page -  188
     Quarter - Sept
     District - Bedwelty, Monmouthshire

I can't find the entry for the death of a Thomas Barnes though       Did find this birth entry though, if it's your William the registration districts match  -

William James Barnes (birth)
     1875  Volume - 11a   Page - 114
     Quarter - June
     District - Bedwelty, Monmouthshire

Not a certainty, I know, but definately a possibility!!!  To answer your question about what happened to Margaret & her younger son, John - I think I may have found the answer, there is this record in the marriage index -

Margaret Barnes to John Haywood
     1881  Volume - 11b   Page - 243
     Quarter - Dec
     District - Hay, Herefordshire

and this is what I found in the 1891 census -

1891

Bredwardine Rd, Clifford

John Haywood         33   Head   Mar   Agricultural Labourer   Monmouthshire, Wales
Margaret Haywood   38   Wife    Mar                                 Herefordshire, Dorstone
John Haywood         10   Son                                           Herefordshire, Clifford
Mary Ann Haywood    8   Daur                                          Herefordshire, Bredwardine
Clara Jane Haywood   1   Daur                                          Herefordshire, Clifford

                     (RG12/ 4580/ 109/ 1)

It all fits, but I urge you to find the evidence to back up these assumptions.

All the best
Sue   

[bagpuss]

Hello again Ian,

This looks like them in 1901 (no sign of Mary Ann though!) -

1901

Dingle Cottage, Clyro, Radnorshire

John Haywood         40   Head   Mar   Cowman on Farm     Herefordshire, Clifford
Margaret Haywood   48   Wife    Mar                                     ''                 ''
Clara J Haywood      11   Daur                                              ''                 ''

                     (RG13/ 5178/ 110/ 22)

and this looks like John, as it is the only John Haywood or Barnes of right age range born Herefordshire -

45, Cardiff Rd, Mountain Ash, Llanwonno, Glamorgan

John Haywood       19    Boarder   S   Coalminer                  Hereford
                     
                     (RG13/ 5006/ 104/8)

Will have a look to see if I can locate Thomas Barnes in earlier census returns.

Sue

PS - If you use the reply button (below) I will pick up your replies much quicker.   

[ianhb]

Thanks Sue
This is getting interesting but there are two steps to take this forward with 20 century to solve Annie and other siblings and also back to the pre 1850s if this is possible.
Perhaps a mining problem led to the confusion in the 20th Century?
Thomas`s Barnes father is the way backwards and perhaps his mother and father.
Can you help?

[bagpuss]

Hello there,

I can't manage to trace Thomas on the 1871 census or before, if he had appeared on a census with Margaret it would have provided his age and birthplace but (if it was him who was William's father) he was married to Margaret and died in the intervening years.  As it's a common name it's imposssible to trace him.

The only way would be to obtain their marriage certificate to give his age and father's name.  It costs £7.00 per certificate, but the information they contain is invaluable to geneaologists.

Regards
Sue   



 

[ianhb]

Thanks for trying. I have already got marriage cert for the other side of the family and this has led me all over the country on my mothers side.
If I find out anything I will copy it to you.
Thanks again.
IAN

[ianhb]

The marriage certificate of Thomas Barnes and Margaret Howells in  1873gave the following names of fathers:
James Barnes and James Brush