John Overall and Frances Marriage - Bermondsey Area?

[Barbara F]

In 1841 John and Sarah are in New Street, Bermondsey.  No children. At that time John is still a hosier.

HO107/1049/3 f 47

Barbara

[CaroleW]

Did you get Sarah's maiden name from one of their childrens birth certs?  There is an 1849 marriage to a Sarah Standerwick - both were unmarried previously

[Tim Brayshaw]

I have just been looking at Overall baptisms and there appears to be 2 families headed by John & Sarah Overall who were baptising children in Bermondsey.

I was just transcribing them assuming they were yours when I noticed that 2 of the actual birthdates were only 4mths apart in 1848.

A John & Sarah Overall baptised the following children all on the same date - 25.7.1860 at Bermondsey St Mary Magdalene.  That John was a matmaker and address was Brunswick Court

Sarah b 22.4.1848
Fanny b 1.12.1851
Louisa b 20.7.1853

On 13.7.1856 a John & Sarah Overall baptised 2 children at Christ Church Bermondsey.  Address 25 Parish St Horsleydown and occ Fellowship porter

Ann Elizabeth b 18.6.1850
William b 18.8.1848

I can tell you 100% that my William Overall (1848 birth) is the one baptised by John and Sarah on 13/07/1956.

I can trace him back from Sheffield census 1871 to 1861 with his parents and his father (John) on that 1861 census is down as Fellowship porter so that definitely matches.

The question is now, is my John and Sarah, John Overall and Sarah Butcher or not?

Many thanks for all of your help so far!

[Tim Brayshaw]

I have found John and Sarah in 1851.  If you are using Ancestry they are transcribed as Sonall!

They are in St John Horsleydown and have 3 children.

Ref is HO 107 1559  f 500.

Barbara

In 1841 John and Sarah are in New Street, Bermondsey.  No children. At that time John is still a hosier.

HO107/1049/3 f 47

Barbara

Thank you for both of those! I will try and find them myself in a moment to add them to my sources.

Did you get Sarah's maiden name from one of their childrens birth certs?  There is an 1849 marriage to a Sarah Standerwick - both were unmarried previously

Do you know what, I didn't, i stupidly was following the line of Butcher because it seemed to make sense at the time. Maybe i should follow the Standerwick line at the same time to see which one makes more sense!

EDIT: Would that mean that William was out of wedlock?

[CaroleW]

1851 census shows William as 4yrs old whereas if he was b 18.8.1848 he would only be 2yrs old at the time of the 1851 census

Also - Sarah is shown as b Middlesex - not Kent

[Tim Brayshaw]

1851 census shows William as 4yrs old whereas if he was b 18.8.1848 he would only be 2yrs old at the time of the 1851 census

Also - Sarah is shown as b Middlesex - not Kent

In 1861 this is the record for the family i know is definitely mine;

Name: Sarah Overall
Age:   39
Born:   1822
Spouse:   John Overall
Where born:   Folkestone, Kent, England

Name   Age
John Overall   42
Sarah Overall   39
William Overall   14
Sarah Overall   12
Ann E Overall   10
Fanny Overall   9
Louisa Overall   7


EDIT: William's father has exactly the same occupation title on this census record as of that on the parish baptism record in 1856.

[CaroleW]

I wonder if his birthyear has been incorrectly entered as 1848 on the parish register instead of 1846?

Births September qtr 1846 
William Overall  Rotherhithe    4   427

No entry for 1848

As a precaution - I would order Louisa's birth cert

Births September qtr 1853   

Louisa Overall    St Olave    1d   43   

[Tim Brayshaw]

1851 census shows William as 4yrs old whereas if he was b 18.8.1848 he would only be 2yrs old at the time of the 1851 census

Also - Sarah is shown as b Middlesex - not Kent

I think on the 1851 census there is an error with whoever wrote it out. If you look across from William Overall it says Folkestone, Kent. I think the birthplaces for William and his mum have been switched around.

I wonder why Sarah wasn't baptised at the same time as William and Ann Elizabeth in 1856?

[Tim Brayshaw]

I have just been looking at Overall baptisms and there appears to be 2 families headed by John & Sarah Overall who were baptising children in Bermondsey.

I was just transcribing them assuming they were yours when I noticed that 2 of the actual birthdates were only 4mths apart in 1848.

A John & Sarah Overall baptised the following children all on the same date - 25.7.1860 at Bermondsey St Mary Magdalene.  That John was a matmaker and address was Brunswick Court

Sarah b 22.4.1848
Fanny b 1.12.1851
Louisa b 20.7.1853

On 13.7.1856 a John & Sarah Overall baptised 2 children at Christ Church Bermondsey.  Address 25 Parish St Horsleydown and occ Fellowship porter

Ann Elizabeth b 18.6.1850
William b 18.8.1848

Is the family in bold in your quote above the 1841 census find you discovered, and the other family mentioned in your quote the family related to me?

As you have said they can't be the same family, but the Fellowship porter one is definitely mine by the looks of it.

Did you get Sarah's maiden name from one of their childrens birth certs?  There is an 1849 marriage to a Sarah Standerwick - both were unmarried previously

What are the details of this marriage? Are there any clues towards the families?

I think i chose the Butcher as the line to follow because there was, (possibly coincidently) a Sarah Butcher record...

Name:   Sar Butcher
Gender:   Female
Christening Date:   26 Jul 1820
Christening Place:   FOLKESTONE,KENT,ENGLAND
Father's Name:   Hen Butcher
Mother's Name:   Sar