Author Topic: George and Elizabeth Lester/Leicester b 1770s - their marriage and parents  (Read 4483 times)

Offline pergamond

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 271
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
I wonder if anyone can help please. I've got quite a tangle of Lesters that I'm trying to unravel.
I'll start with one part, and hopefully writing this will help me make sense of it a bit better too.

The first person I'm tracing is John Samuel Lester who married Mary Ann Lester in 1839. I know a bit about his death, children, marriage etc, so don't need anything there, but now I'd like to trace further back.

I started looking for John Samuel Lester's birth.
His marriage record from 28 Jan 1839 at Tower Hamlets to Mary Ann Lester has his father as George Lester, and Mary Ann's father as John Lester. Witness Charlotte Lester.

A George Leicester and Elizabeth baptised two children on 18 Sep 1811 at St Margarets church, Barking, Essex :-
 - their son John Samuel Leicester, born on 21 July 1811.
 - their daughter Mary Elizabeth Leicester, born on 6 Oct 1808.
I have checked their baptisms on SEAX. I presume this is my John Samuel.
I don't know if George and Elizabeth had any other children.

I've tried to find a record of George and Elizabeth's marriage, but there's nothing obvious to me. An Ancestry family tree has it as 1804, George Lester to Elizabeth Saltmarsh, but I'm not sure why she was the candidate. Maybe because the witness was again a Charlotte Lester? I've tried to find Charlotte but nothing leaps out as being the right person.

The 1841 Census has a George and Elizth Lester, both 65 born about 1776, George as a shoemaker, living at 5 Heath Street, Regent Court, Barking parish, Essex. Elizabeth born in Essex, George NOT born in Essex. Couldn't find them in the 1851 census, so they may have both died some time in the 1840s. These may not even be the correct George and Elizabeth.

I'll leave it there for now.


Offline trish1120

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 28,251
  • Happy me
    • View Profile
Re: George and Elizabeth Lester/Leicester b 1770s - their marriage and parents
« Reply #1 on: Friday 24 October 14 13:08 BST (UK) »
A CHARLOTTE Lester was Baptised 10 Sept 1820, St Margaret of Antioch, Barking
Parents GEORGE/ELIZABETH
Fathers Occp Shoemaker

Likely your Marriage Witness :)

EDIT;
Siblings of Charlotte;
JANE Lester 12 June 1814
ELIZABETH ANNE Lester, 04 April 1819

Source of above FreeREG
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline pergamond

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 271
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: George and Elizabeth Lester/Leicester b 1770s - their marriage and parents
« Reply #2 on: Friday 24 October 14 19:14 BST (UK) »
Thanks Trish. I wonder who the Charlotte Lester was who witnessed George and Elizabeth's marriage in 1804?

Offline smudwhisk

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,864
  • Whiskey (1997-2018)
    • View Profile
Re: George and Elizabeth Lester/Leicester b 1770s - their marriage and parents
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 25 October 14 00:50 BST (UK) »
Having looked a the Charlotte Lester witness signature from 1804 and 1839, I wouldn't like to say that is the same person.  Yes there are a few similarities, but there are also differences which could be caused by a large difference in time, but there is no proof it is the same person.

You say you aren't aware of any other reputed children to George and Elizabeth, yet you mention the ancestry tree which has the George and Elizabeth Saltmarsh marriage.  That same tree has other children listed to George and Elizabeth, including others listed as baptised in Barking - Jane (1814), Elizabeth Anne (1819) and Charlotte (1820).  Those are the baptisms that Trish has already mentioned.

The ancestry tree also lists a Henry George who is supposed to have been born in Whitechapel in 1807, although no baptism is listed.  The tree does have a marriage for a Henry George Lester to Mary Ann Maria Knight on 7 April 1839 at Poplar All Saints.  The marriage is viewable on ancestry, he is listed as a mast maker, father George a cordwainer.  One of the witnesses to that marriage is John Samuel Lester and the signature looks the same as for your John Samuel's marriage.  The Charlotte who witnessed John Samuel's 1839 marriage could well be his sister.

Henry George and Mary Ann Maria would appear to be in Kensington on the 1851 Census as Leister, he is listed as born Whitechapel aged 44 years and with them is his father George a widower, formerly cordwainer, aged 78 born what looks like Bow City, Middlesex.  This would tend to tie in with the 1804 marriage in Whitechapel, although I can't see a baptism for Henry George nor his father.

There is an Elizabeth Sir Lester death registered Dec qtr 1844 Romford Registration District, but whether that is George's wife can only be confirmed from the death certificate.  Romford Registration District covers a number of places.  Ancestry is showing a burial of an Elizabeth Sir Lester in 1844 at Barking, the source is familysearch.  Familysearch are also showing an Elizabeth Saltmarsh baptised at Romford in 1777, which could possibly be her but you'd need to check through the Romford parish registers to see if that child died as an infant or possible married there.

There is a marriage of a Charlotte Lester in Sept qtr 1845 Kensington Registration District, unfortunately not showing on ancestry.  One of the possible spouses is a John Gibbs.  In 1851 there is a John and Charlotte Gibbs in Stepney, she is listed as aged 30 born Barking and they are living in Mile End.  However, you would have to purchase a copy of the marriage certificate for that Charlotte Lester to confirm if she did marry John Gibbs and her father was George Lester.  Its a shame the marriage doesn't appear on ancestry because the signature could then be checked against the 1839 witness signature.  Its worth bearing in mind though that one of the other potential spouses of John Gibbs in 1845 is a Charlotte Amy Wood.  That said, there is a baptism in Stepney in 1848 of an Elizabeth Sir Bedon Gibbs to John and Charlotte, a merchant clerk from Limehouse.  Not quite the same profession as on the 1851 Census (and the child would appear to have died by then) but interesting middle name in light of the 1844 death in Romford RD.
(KENT) Lingwell, Rayment (BUCKS) Read, Hutchins (SRY) Costin, Westbrook (DOR) Gibbs, Goreing (DUR) Green (ESX) Rudland, Malden, Rouse, Boosey (FIFE) Foulis, Russell (NFK) Johnson, Farthing, Purdy, Barsham (GLOS) Collett, Morris, Freebury, May, Kirkman (HERTS) Winchester, Linford (NORTHANTS) Bird, Brimley, Chater, Wilford, Read, Chapman, Jeys, Marston, Lumley (WILTS) Arden, Whatley, Batson, Gleed, Greenhill (SOM) Coombs, Watkins (RUT) Stafford (BERKS) Sansom, Angel, Young, Stratton, Weeks, Day


Offline pergamond

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 271
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: George and Elizabeth Lester/Leicester b 1770s - their marriage and parents
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 26 October 14 21:12 GMT (UK) »
Hi Smudwhisk,

Thank you so much for all of that - amazing. I will follow it up. Sorry I didn't reply straight away - have been on holiday.

It may seem strange that I'm re-inventing the wheel when there is a perfectly good tree already on Ancestry. I'm quite new to genealogy, and I want to check what the tree owner has done, and try to find the links he has made. So far everything he has done has been accurate, and he appears to be a very careful researcher. There are people I have missed, and there are research methods that I'm learning about as I go. I'm very slow, so I have a lot to learn about efficient ways of finding info.

I think this is such a fantastic website, where people like yourself (and Trish, and Toban, and others) kindly give their time to guide others in their searches.

Offline smudwhisk

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,864
  • Whiskey (1997-2018)
    • View Profile
Re: George and Elizabeth Lester/Leicester b 1770s - their marriage and parents
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 26 October 14 21:16 GMT (UK) »
Best rule of thumb with ancestry trees is treat them as a guide but check out everything on them and possibly wider as well since sometimes it can look right from all the evidence but they can still have the wrong person. :-\
(KENT) Lingwell, Rayment (BUCKS) Read, Hutchins (SRY) Costin, Westbrook (DOR) Gibbs, Goreing (DUR) Green (ESX) Rudland, Malden, Rouse, Boosey (FIFE) Foulis, Russell (NFK) Johnson, Farthing, Purdy, Barsham (GLOS) Collett, Morris, Freebury, May, Kirkman (HERTS) Winchester, Linford (NORTHANTS) Bird, Brimley, Chater, Wilford, Read, Chapman, Jeys, Marston, Lumley (WILTS) Arden, Whatley, Batson, Gleed, Greenhill (SOM) Coombs, Watkins (RUT) Stafford (BERKS) Sansom, Angel, Young, Stratton, Weeks, Day

Offline pergamond

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 271
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: George and Elizabeth Lester/Leicester b 1770s - their marriage and parents
« Reply #6 on: Monday 27 October 14 01:51 GMT (UK) »
I've found a baptism for a George Lester 11 Mar 1770, parish St Dunstan and All Saints, Stepney Middlesex, Borough Tower Hamlets. Parents John Lester, of M.E.O.T labourer, and Eliz Lester. (Ancestry)

Two questions about this - could this location possibly be referred to as Bow, does anyone think?
                                     - what does M.E.O.T. mean?

Also, there's a criminal record for a George Lester, trial date 10 Apr 1793, Middlesex, Acquittal.
Aged 21, born about 1772, (very difficult to read the faint handwriting), 5ft 8, sandy hair, grey eyes, and I think it says born Limehouse, or is it another name? Shoemaker. Crime also difficult to read - carrying away a cotton gown? (Also Ancestry.)

There may be several George Lesters, shoemakers. And if the name is Limehouse, is that Middlesex? (Please bear with my lack of knowledge! :))

The reason I've asked about location is that George Lester was said to have been born in Bow, Middlesex.

Offline Jolee

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 596
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: George and Elizabeth Lester/Leicester b 1770s - their marriage and parents
« Reply #7 on: Monday 27 October 14 08:49 GMT (UK) »
M.E.O.T is Mile End Old Town. Limehouse is part of the East End now but was Middlesex up to the early 1900's. Lots of little areas around here

Edit this area also covers what is known as the east end now, including Bow, Bromley by Bow, Whitechapel, Stepney, Limehouse, Bethnal Green etc. My family migrated to Barking from there as it's was country.

Offline pergamond

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 271
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: George and Elizabeth Lester/Leicester b 1770s - their marriage and parents
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 28 October 14 05:21 GMT (UK) »
Thank you Jolee. :)
I have found a wonderful interactive map showing all the English counties and their parishes as they were in 1851, which is fantastic for someone like me who doesn't know the geography. Possibly everyone knows it - anyway I have asked the website concerned if I can share it, as it may be under copyright.