Author Topic: Davies/Roberts/Williams mystery - wrexham area, 1830-1860  (Read 4428 times)

Offline hayzec

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Davies/Roberts/Williams mystery - wrexham area, 1830-1860
« on: Sunday 02 November 14 01:22 GMT (UK) »
My 3rd great grandparents were Elizabeth & Edward Davies, born according to census records in 1833 in Hope, Flintshire and 1836 in Cefn Mawr respectively.

The earliest census I've found them on is 1861, where they are living in Gwersyllt, and they remained in that area for the remainder of their lives, moving locally between Pentre Broughton, Brymbo and Gwersyllt. I've found the headstone for their grave propped up against the back wall of Brymbo church.

Where I've drawn a blank is in tracking down their marriage record, any baptism records or who their parents are. The 1861 census references a father-in-law living with them named John Roberts, perhaps Elizabeth's father, who was born in Buckley, Flintshire in about 1814. However I've not found a record of an Elizabeth Roberts marrying an Edward Davies at the right time in a sensible place, or a baptism record tying Elizabeth to John. I think the 1841 & 1851 censuses for the area have been lost, making it somewhat harder to follow the lines backwards.

To confuse matters further, the 1861 census lists step-sons by the names of John Williams, born in Manchester, Lancashire in 1854 and George Williams, born in Bilston, Staffordshire in 1855. George assumed the surname Davies by 1871, but I believe he died before the 1881 census. In another twist, John is listed on the 1871 census as living with the Edwards family in Llandudno, his relation to the head given as 'relative'. He's back with Edward & Elizabeth Davies in 1881, again listed as a step-son, but returns to Llandudno after that and for the rest of his life. I've also not found a credible marriage record of an Elizabeth Williams marrying an Edward Davies, or an Elizabeth Roberts marrying someone by the surname Williams. Likewise I've not been able to confirm baptism / birth registrations for John & George, given how many people with those names there were mid 19th century in Manchester & the Black Country.

Edward died in 1879, and I learnt from the headstone I found that Elizabeth married again, to Robert Edwards (as if there aren't enough Roberts and Edwards in this story already!) before dying herself in 1888.

I'd really like to discover:

(a) who Edward & Elizabeth's parents were, and obtain the relevant marriage/baptism records
(b) who John & George Williams were and why they were living with Edward and Elizabeth Davies
(c) who John Roberts was, if not Elizabeth's father.

Any help with answering these, or signposts to where I can find more information are gratefully received!

Thanks, Hazel

Offline Milliepede

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Re: Davies/Roberts/Williams mystery - wrexham area, 1830-1860
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 02 November 14 11:36 GMT (UK) »
That's quite a bag of tricks to untangle isn't it  :)

Looking at young Thomas Davies born 1860 Moss Denbighshire - maybe his birth would give a year/location for the marriage (if indeed there was one) but I can't find a place called Moss - any idea where it is or what place nearby? 
So we can narrow it down to a registration district. 

Hinchliffe - Huddersfield Wiltshire
Burroughs - Arlingham Glos
Pick - Frocester Glos

Offline Gadget

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Re: Davies/Roberts/Williams mystery - wrexham area, 1830-1860
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 02 November 14 12:43 GMT (UK) »
Welcome to Rootschat, Hazel  :)


) but I can't find a place called Moss - any idea where it is or what place nearby? 
So we can narrow it down to a registration district.

Moss is just to the North of Pentre  Broughton:

 http://www.rootschat.com/links/01e3q/

I had a look at this earlier. I think it needs a good few hours with a pen and paper to work out alternatives. Sorry but too busy at the moment.

I'll check this later to see if anyone's untangled  it.




Gadget
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Offline wilcoxon

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Re: Davies/Roberts/Williams mystery - wrexham area, 1830-1860
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 02 November 14 13:49 GMT (UK) »
can I put the 1861 entry here, just to make it simpler .

1861 Little Mountain, Gwersyllt
Edward Davies  25 coal miner b Cefn Mawr
 Elizabeth Davies  28 miners wife b Hope
 John Williams  7 stepson b Manchester
 George Williams  5 stepson b Bilston, Staffs
 Thomas Davies  1 son b Moss
 John Roberts  47 widower ,  father in law , potter blackware , b Buckley
 


 




 
 
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Offline Gadget

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Re: Davies/Roberts/Williams mystery - wrexham area, 1830-1860
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 02 November 14 14:04 GMT (UK) »
A possible bpt for George in Darleston ( not far from Bilston) Jan 1856 - parents were William (miner) and Elizabeth.

Might be worth following up.


Gadget
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Offline wilcoxon

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Re: Davies/Roberts/Williams mystery - wrexham area, 1830-1860
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 02 November 14 14:09 GMT (UK) »
I know it`s not much help but  could this be John Roberts in 1871 ? It`s all happening in the same area.

1871  Near Moss Quarry, Broughton.
John Roberts  60 coalminer b Buckley.
Maria Roberts  52 b Farndon
John Puleston  stepson  24 coalminer b Isycoed

North Wales BMD has a John Roberts marrying at Brymbo , St Mary`s in 1863 (Free BMD June 1863)
Possible spouses.
EVANS Margaret C03/1/77
PULSTON Mariah C03/1/77

   
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Offline Gadget

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Re: Davies/Roberts/Williams mystery - wrexham area, 1830-1860
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 02 November 14 14:13 GMT (UK) »
A possible marriage:

Dec 1857 Wrexham 11b, 550

Edward Davies and Elizabeth Williams on the same page*.  I've not checked for a couple match

(If she was a widow, Elizabeth would have married under her previous married name not her mn)

Gadget

* It might  be a FreeBMD error. I've checked 3 other GRO listings and can't find it on them.
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Offline wrjones

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Re: Davies/Roberts/Williams mystery - wrexham area, 1830-1860
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 02 November 14 14:27 GMT (UK) »
A possible marriage:

Dec 1857 Wrexham 11b, 550

Edward Davies and Elizabeth Williams on the same page.  I've not checked for a couple match

(If she was a widow, Elizabeth would have married under her previous married name not her mn)

Gadget

I did look on Family Search earlier they don't match

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Jones, Griffiths. Stephens, Parry, Gabriel, Conway, Hughes, Evans, Roberts, Lea, Hanmer. Peake, Edwards. Newnes, Davies. Thomas. "Blythin".
All North Wales.
Conway, Durber, Cartlidge, Lovatt, Bebington. Brindley, Sankey, Brunt. Dean. Clewes. Rhodes. Mountford,Walker,Bache, "Gibbons"Hood. Taylor
All Stoke-on-Trent.
Francis - Nantwich Cheshire.
Dennell - Cheshire/Staffordshire.
Talbot-Shropshire
Census Information Is Crown Copyright,from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Gadget

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Re: Davies/Roberts/Williams mystery - wrexham area, 1830-1860
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 02 November 14 14:37 GMT (UK) »
Just been doing a thorough search for it, WR. I think it's a FreeBMD error.
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