Samuel HENDRIE bc 1838 & Mary CAMPBELL bc1829

[loobylooayr]

Good morning Ruskie (at least it's morning here on the very dreich (miserably wet) West of Scotland,

So the Oct 1848 marriage is discounted.
I have no idea if the July marriage record will be worth looking at. I know in Scottish records there can be 2 Old Parish Records for a couple - 1 in the groom's parish and 1 in the bride's. They also tend to be much closer in date (maybe a week or so apart). The Samuel and Mary on the record you've viewed are of the same parish.
 The banns for the marrriage are recorded sometimes too in Scottish OPR's  and that can be weeks/months  prior to the actual event. I don't know if the same applied in Ireland. 

It certainly looks like the birth of William Hendrie has 1850 Dec and Samuel 1847 Oct.
It's a bit strange  because not only has Samuel or Mary given two different dates 3 years apart! but the wedding has taken place in 2 different locations- County Antrim amd County Londonderry ??
So 1847 Oct County Londonderry
      1850 Dec County Antrim

I'm sure the births are to the same couple. Not that many Samuel Hendries in Scotland!

Looby

[Ruskie]

Good (my) evening Looby. Please send some of your lovely rain my way - we are in desperate need of it in my part of the world.

Yes definitely the same Samuel Hendrie and Mary Campbell in Scotland - addresses, occupations - everything fits.

I will see if Forfarian can offer any advice regarding the possible contents of the 21 July 1848 m/c - and whether or not it might be worth using a few credits on.

If one of the father's of the marriage was different I may have been able to accept it as an error, or a fib to cover illegitimacy or something, but for both fathers and both occupations to be wrong, and the date in question (though tantalizingly similar) does not tally either, I don't feel happy accepting that this 1848 marriage is for my Samuel and Mary. 

[Forfarian]

Well. Quite a lot of information then. And I suspect some disinformation.

First, both the index listings I copied from the GRONI web site have the identical date (21 July 1848), place (Coleraine) and reference number (M/1848/K1/1070/1/98). So this is clearly a marriage of a Samuel Hen(d)rie/y to a Mary Campbell. As is the one on 27 October 1848. I find it rather stretches my credulity that two Samuel Henrys should have married two Mary Campbells in Coleraine within just about three months of one another, but it's not impossible. You need to get the image of the other certificate and compare what they say. If both sets of residence and fathers' names are the same, I would incline to the view that these are two records of the same marriage, but if there is a difference, then they must presumably be two different couples.

I am not too bothered about the variations in the dates quoted in the children's birth certificates, because it's quite common for people to get this wrong, especially if they could not read and write and therefore could not check that what was written down was correct.  Also, it is not unheard of for people's death certificates to have incorrect information, because obviously the person registering the death could only supply the information they knew, or thought they knew. It even happens that wrong infomation gets on to marriage certificates, especially if the people involved could not read or write.

So although the information is conflicting, I think that it is still possible that it is the same couple, and that more evidence is needed to be sure one way or the other.

Is t worth viewing the 21 July 1848 m/c? Or is that the same couple entered twice for some reason?

I think it is essential to view it and see what it says. Whether it is worth it is something you will only know after you have got it.

[Ruskie]

Excellent advice and information, thank you very much Forfarian.

I have not yet found any conflicting information on my previous (limited) dealings with Scottish certificates, however of course it is logical that this must happen.

And ... it is timely that you should mention that as I have precisely that conundrum with another branch of the family (another Scottish/Irish family) though I am unsure if it is the correct certificate for the correct person .... 

[Ruskie]

Wrong couple again, but not the same couple who married in October.

Married 21 Jul 1848, The Registrars Office Coleraine
Samuel Henry, full age, labourer, father: Archibald farmer
Mary Ann Campbell, full age, father: Thomas farmer
Residence of both: Carnalbridge(?) Parish, Ballywillen, c Londonderry

So I think that might be the end of that. If I want to pursue this I might have to go over to the Irish boards though I still don't hold out much hope.

I suppose as two different dates were given for their marriage it is possible that they didn't actually marry and made up dates just for the children's birth certificates. 

[Forfarian]

Astonishing! That means that there must have been three separate couples with the same names marrying at about the same time.

My apologies for sending you off on what now seems to have been a wild goose chase.

[loobylooayr]

What a shame     
3 Samuel Hen(d)ry/ie 's marrying a Mary Campbell in roughly the same area at roughly time.

[Ruskie]

My apologies for sending you off on what now seems to have been a wild goose chase.

No apologies required.  I am grateful for all of your help, and happy that you have made me aware of the Groni site. It is (almost) as useful to eliminate incorrect marriages as it is to find the correct one. 

[MonicaL]

What a hard search isn't it 

Have found Samuel Henry's sister though in Gartsherrie. She died in 1901, confirming again parents as you have from Samuel's certificates: Samuel Henry and Margaret McCook.

Also, the 1891 census for Hannah is great as it gives her birth place in Ireland, unusual as you know that this shows:

John Black 63 Weighman b. Derry, Ireland
Hannah Black 66 b. Derry, Ireland
Address: 112 Long Raw, Old Monkland


Snippet below from Hannah's DC: