Confused - McQueen/Thomson Families from Argyll/Paisley - help please

[Ruskie]

Thank you to Jen, Monica and Jonn. 

I was looking at this family again more carefully yesterday and noticed a couple of points which I forgot to mention in my (very long) question. I was regretting posting such a long post and was just about to ask a moderator to remove this for me as last time I looked I had no replies. I was going to simplify things and ask for a couple of specific lookups. I'm glad I didn't as there have been some excellent points raised and finds made by the three of you.

I have found myself going round and round in circles with this family and even doubting that I have the correct David Thomson and Margaret McQueen, but I am sure I am correct.
 
Firstly I think I have the correct certificates - the correct death for David Thomson in 1877 and the correct death for his wife Margaret McQueen/Rowan in 1890 - both deaths in Paisley.

So that means that the birth of the Margaret in 1814 and her parents John McQueen and Mary Johnston I found in Killarrow are incorrect. It is good to have cleared that up. So that means that my Margaret McQueen is possibly Peggy who was christened in 1816 in Killarrow with parents Donald McQueen and Nancy Clark. Does that seem likely? I found a sibling, John, with same parents chr in 1819, but can't see any other siblings on Familysearch.

A clue that I have the correct family in 1871 (where Margaret McQueen and her daughters are living with John Scott and family) - when Catherine Thomson marries John Hendrie in 1879 one of the witnesses is John Scott (who would be Catherine's brother in law). So that fits quite nicely.

On the 1871 census there's a Margaret McQueen born 1819, Bowmore, unmarried, living with her widowed sister-in-law called Mary - if we knew who Mary married maybe it would help place this Margaret with the correct parents. At least that would eliminate one set of parents for your Margaret.

David's not easy to find in 71 - there is a David Thomson, 50, labourer born Ireland lodging at High Church in Lanarkshire but he's describing himself as a widower...

I think the wee lassie is an 'examiner of shirting' - you've got to love the transcriptions they must be using OCR rather than humans.

I'd like to have a better look at the 10 'Mar* McQueens showing living in Argyllshire in 41 but there appears to be a problem with Freecen at the moment - I keep getting the 'server busy' notice.
Jen

Thank you Jenny. I will have a look at that Margaret and David pus the 10 Mar* McQueens in 1841. It is difficult to know if Margaret would be Margaret McQueen or Thomson (I know the Scottish women used both married and maiden surnames almost interchangeably).

Thanks for clarifying the "examiner of shirting" occupation - that makes a lot more sense.

Hi Ruskie and Jen 

There is a death or burial entry showing on the OPRs in Abbey Parish, Renfrewshire for a Matthew ROWON in 1839. Wondered whether this could be Margaret's first husband?

Monica

That is very interesting - thank you Monica. Would there be mention of name of wife or anything identifiable to let me know if it is the correct death?

Have you checked the marriage for Margaret daughter to John Scott in 1870 I think? Going by this post here http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/LANARK/2001-06/0991679072  Thought it might give you further details on father David and mother Margaret, witnesses, addresses etc.

Guess also that in 1861 that you show above, Mary aged 12 is actuall Marg. (which often transcribes as Mary)?

Similarly, again a guess, Agnes b. 1856 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XY5Y-Y3B - I am thinking she is the Ann in 1861 showing aged 6 maybe (not accurate, but there was no Ann born to David and Margaret in 1855-6 was there?

Monica

Thank you Monica - great information as usual and love the way you approach these problems. It is a great idea to look at John Scott's marriage to Margaret. I shall do that. And Margaret=Mary, Agnes=Ann of course makes sense. I spent ages looking for Agnes yesterday and didn't think to check for her as Ann.  As you say, no Anns in the family
[however Jonn found one but age is wrong to be this Ann.  ]

[Ruskie]

David Thomson and Margaret McQueen look to have done a job lot on christenings in Jan 1855 - they look to show on SP (OPRs). Wondered whether any clues from witness' names etc?

John https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTJ3-4QJ
Margaret https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTJS-65X
William https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTJS-65J
Mary Ann https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTJ3-4Q2

This is a good site, you may have come across it already. Thinking here of seeing the number of the McQueen families around (not many) http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~steve/islay/opr/

Monica

I have those christenings from Familysearch but it is a good idea to check them on SP.

I did come across that site a couple of days ago while I was preoccupied and forgot to go back to it, so thank you for reminding me.

Jen has already mentioned one possibility for David Thomson in 1871. There is another one I have across. a/try I think has this entry mistranscribed (sigh  ). It shows as:

David THOMAN, 45, patient, b. Ireland. Occupation: Labourer In Meachank(?). This entry shows at the Infirmary and Asylum in Paisley.  Could this be David ill and away from home on the night of the 1871 census maybe?

SP I think may have a David THOMSON, aged 45, in Paisley...but I haven't looked at the entry, so may be wrong about it.

Regarding the address details you have for a David Thomson's death that you have mentioned, there is an entry for a David Thomson in Barterholm on the 1875 Valuation Rolls on SP. Won't tell you much as you know, but thought maybe other names on the page (if connected to the family names you have) might help. Also it should show his occupation.

Monica

Thanks for those Monica - I will investigate. In 1877 David dies of Cardiac disease (3 months) but being heart related it is possible he was ill in 1871.

I've actually never looked at Valuation Rolls  but will have a look at this one.

Hello All, there are certainly some strange going ons in this family, there are a couple of clues that could knit it all together as the same David Thomson, and Margaret McQueen alias Rowan.

Islay, is the clue you will not find many Thomson, births on that beautiful island well in that period anyway you have Catherine, and Agnes. However there is this particular birth Anne Thomson, born 02/Oct/1855. in kilarrow, Argyll, to parents David Thomson, and Margaret Rowan.

That is what i would describe as a possible teaser.

Regards,
Jonn.

Hi Jonn - I was very excited when I discovered that one branch of the family I am researching came from outside a city. I've done a bit of research about the island and looked on google street view. It is stunning. Presumably the family moved to the city for work, but how sad to leave such as place.

Can I ask where you found the birth for Anne Thomson in 1855 and her death in 1866?

I will have a look at that 1881 census find. Yes, Mary Thomson (head) should be Margaret but Mary looks very like Marg so easy to get wrong)

Once again, thank you all very much. I have loads to be going on with.

[Ruskie]

Hi Monica. Just to let you know there's nothing on the Valuation Roll. Never mind - worth a try. 

Jonn, I am certain you have found the right family in the 1881 census. 

[Ruskie]

There is a death or burial entry showing on the OPRs in Abbey Parish, Renfrewshire for a Matthew ROWON in 1839. Wondered whether this could be Margaret's first husband?
Monica

Sadly not 'my' Matthew - this one is a 10 year old boy.

[MonicaL]

....Islay, is the clue you will not find many Thomson, births on that beautiful island well in that period anyway you have Catherine, and Agnes. However there is this particular birth Anne Thomson, born 02/Oct/1855. in kilarrow, Argyll, to parents David Thomson, and Margaret Rowan....

That is what i would describe as a possible teaser.

I can't ever resist looking at 1855 certs, especially when it has been tricky!

Jonn, well done on your great find  Still confused about the Ann and Agnes names showing in the censuses etc (you mentioned Jonn that Ann b. 1855 died in 1866?). With Ann born in 1855, from Jonn's details here https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XY5Y-YMZ and Agnes the year after in https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XY5Y-Y3B - likely Agnes is still missing from 1861?

A great snippet from Ann Thomson's birth cert:

[MonicaL]

From this cert, confirmed details for David as a slater. Birth place of Paisley is wrong, but let's not moan  Aged 32 in 1855, so born c. 1823 (in Co Down as you had before from 1851).

Margaret's details are consistent with what you had. She must have had a couple of children with Matthew Rowan likely who didn't survive (or we haven't come across them...) given Ann's birth shows as her 10th child.

With David Thomson, as at Ann's birth: 2 boys living (John and William?), 1 boy deceased (we have no record of this child I don't think) and three girls (Margaret b. 1848, Mary Ann b. 1853 and Ann b. 1855). There were only four children being christened (from Family Search entries we have already showing previously) on 30 January 1855: John, Margaret, William and Mary Ann. So from this, (counting my fingers  ) she had another four children before marrying David Thomson?

Monica

PS. The birth reg above Ann Thomson, is for a Margaret McQueen, daughter of a Neil McQueen, 35 yr old and a Margaret McDougall....no idea if connected, but let's leave that for another time 

[Ruskie]

 
 
Monica! How wonderful! Thank you SO much for sorting that out (inspired by Jonn's find of young Ann).

I am very grateful for you looking up the 1855 birth - I've been wanting one of those for years.  Would you be so kind as to forward that  to me please? I feel a little guilty as I would have been happy to purchase especially that 1855 certificate. 

(ahhhh!! No more McQueens Monica!  No Neil McQueen! I am trying to stick to the direct family with this research, though I have taken a couple of small detours  ).

[Ruskie]

I see it is Margaret's surname being 'Rowan' that I/we missed finding young Ann. 

It does seem odd that Margaret married both Matthew Rowan and David Thomson in Paisley but then returned to Killarrow to live and have children. I would have preferred to get married in that lovely round church if I were her. 

Mind you, I have only found proclamations not marriages in both cases.

Also seems odd that none of Matthew and Margaret's children show up with them in any census ...

[Ruskie]

Can anyone spot Margaret McQueen or Rowan in the 1841 census?

And maybe her parents Donald McQueen and Ann Clark (possibly Nancy) as well please? 

I'm having no success at all.