Author Topic: Help with a McCall family in Glasgow as of 1857  (Read 12737 times)

Offline loobylooayr

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Re: Help with a McCall family in Glasgow as of 1857
« Reply #45 on: Friday 14 November 14 22:49 GMT (UK) »
That's interesting Monica.
I've been perplexed by Juda too! There is a few Juda's/Judah's  on the 1851 according to Freecen.
Wonder if it's how registrar's picked up an Irish accent saying Judy?? As in the last letter being a as in acorn - Jud-a??

Been trying to find Patricks with Jud*** on 1861. No joy yet.

Looby :)

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Help with a McCall family in Glasgow as of 1857
« Reply #46 on: Friday 14 November 14 23:04 GMT (UK) »
Judan becomes Joanna (which I am so much happier with as a name) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTT4-6JD

No idea if this Judan (and variants) McCabe may be connected to Patrick John in 1857...but it is maybe a chink of a possibility  ;)

Monica
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Offline loobylooayr

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Re: Help with a McCall family in Glasgow as of 1857
« Reply #47 on: Friday 14 November 14 23:07 GMT (UK) »

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Help with a McCall family in Glasgow as of 1857
« Reply #48 on: Friday 14 November 14 23:11 GMT (UK) »
...Don't know/can't see yet how to connect any of these dots back to Patick John b. June 1857  :-\

Monica  :)

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Offline loobylooayr

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Re: Help with a McCall family in Glasgow as of 1857
« Reply #49 on: Friday 14 November 14 23:20 GMT (UK) »
I think finding Patrick (John) on the 1861 has to be the answer.

By the way found another Juda - they are crawling out the wood work now  ::) -
a Juda Hughes who marries a Michael Joyce in 1862 at Bridgeton ??
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTYM-KZP

Added - this should be Judah   

Offline loobylooayr

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Re: Help with a McCall family in Glasgow as of 1857
« Reply #50 on: Friday 14 November 14 23:44 GMT (UK) »
Just dotting i's and crossing t's here.
There is an RC marriage at St. Patrick's Church (right slap bang in Finnieston/Anderston area) on 22nd Aug 1851 of a Patrick McColl and Mary Hughes.

More excitingly there is an RC birth/baptism on 1 st June 1857 at St Patrick's for
a Patrick McCaul  to a Patrick and Judith.

And I've no credits left to look!!
Spent this months quota already :(

David, I'd have a look at the RC Birth/Baptism.

Looby :)

Offline davidlstern

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Re: Help with a McCall family in Glasgow as of 1857
« Reply #51 on: Saturday 15 November 14 00:39 GMT (UK) »
I am sitting next to my wife on a plane between New York and Los Angeles marvelling at what you have uncovered!!! The convict theory makes complete sense to me, less so to my wife as it is her family.

The baptism on Jun 1 1857 cannot be our Patrick John, as we know he was born three weeks later.

Offline davidlstern

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Re: Help with a McCall family in Glasgow as of 1857
« Reply #52 on: Saturday 15 November 14 00:52 GMT (UK) »
Not sure where to begin with the rest of this!

First of all, can we tell on the 1861 census for William and Elizabeth Murray whether William is the LODGER or the HEAD? Would be very strange if Elizabeth is the daughter of him and Judan that she would be listed as the Lodger's daughter if William is not the lodger - would make me think that he is not the real father.

I too think it possible that Juda was a Scotch interpretation of an Irish Judy, and highly likely that McCall was not her real maiden name - leading me to believe that it is something close like McCann or McCabe, or to believe that they were not married at the time.

It is perhaps telling how little the descendents know of these people - my wife's uncle, who was a very intelligent man interested in his family history, was only 4 when his grandfather Patrick John died but remembered the events and knew the entire history of his life - but when I asked him about Patrick's parents, he said that his father had not known anything other than the fact that his grandfather was Irish. So perhaps there was a reason they did not speak of it.

There are also a large number of coincidences here. Elizabeth Knox reported the death of Judan the criminal - Patrick John married a Catherine Knox. Judan later married a Thomas Hughes - and we have the link to a Patrick living as a lodger with a Hughes in 1851. There was a Patrick McCall who married a Catherine McCabe in 1851, and I looked hard at that union as a possibility but they had children throughout the 1850's. I know that these are common names in the area at the time, but still interesting to see the names come up again and again.

The answer would have to lie in the 1851, 1861, or 1871 census data - by 1881 Patrick John was likely in Rhodesia, which is why he does not appear, and in 1891 and 1901 he is in Blackburn.

I have no idea what to do with all of these theories!! You are much better detectives than I am!

Offline davidlstern

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Re: Help with a McCall family in Glasgow as of 1857
« Reply #53 on: Saturday 15 November 14 01:03 GMT (UK) »
Actually, it looks like William Murray and Juda McCabe - often listed as Judith Ann (could Juda be an amalgamation of the two names) - had a long relationship and several more children once she returned from gaol, so that shoots that theory...