Help with a McCall family in Glasgow as of 1857

[MonicaL]

This one is a real puzzle, Jonn. Good to have you onboard too 

Monica

[jonn]

Hello Monica,

The index clearly shows two entries exactly the same both under Baptism's, mothers surname are both Judith Mccaul, which in normal circumstances would mean that is her maiden name. I have hundreds of RC. records from my own family and that has always been the case.

So i would say all evidence seems to point to the Statuatory Record for the 1857 birth and the one for the RC. birth are the same person.

Regards,
Jonn.

[davidlstern]

Just an update for those of you who have been helping me so much. I have found a birth for a Judith McCall in 1833 to a Peter and Margaret McCall in Killshandra, county Cavan Ireland - pretty much exactly where you would expect to find McCalls and when you would expect Judith to have been born. The only other records for a Judith McCall in the area are a Judith McCall and Francis Carran just over the border in county Monaghan, who start producing children in the 1860's - I have not found a marriage record. So I am wondering if we were right earlier, that Patrick senior may have died and Judith remarried, bringing young Patrick John with her back to Ireland. There are a lot of Patrick McCalls in the area at the time, but of interest there is a probate record from 1858. Have not been able to find any of these primary records and may never do so, but at least it is a solid lead!

[MonicaL]

David, just adding link to the Irish/Cavan post for more background (you never know who will see what!) www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=705458.0

Not sure about finding any probate/wills necessarily for Patrick Snr given he showed as a labourer didn't he in the records we have for him...but maybe life improved over the following years.

Frustrating always on the Irish side (as many of us know  ). We stay hopeful though always 

Monica

PS: the Francis you mention, Callan rather than Carran likely, as you have on the other post.

[davidlstern]

Thanks Monica! Yes it is Callan not Carran..

I know - expectations are low. Would be great to find an 1871 census entry from Ireland that has 14 year old Patrick John McCall living with this Callan family in Ireland, but I know that won't happen. There do seem to be a far number of RC parish records from the area though, including Ballybay, so perhaps there will be a marriage record that tells us Judith was a widow. That would be at least something.

Otherwise this mystery I fear will never be solved.

[davidlstern]

Not sure if anyone checks back after years have passed, but I felt I should provide an update to all of those who helped!

I came across a new piece of information about our missing Patrick McCall. There is a record from the Chelsea Pensioners hospital from 1859 which lists a Patrick McCall from Drumgoon, Cavan who is in the military. I have also returned to look at the Currie family of Glasgow, in which a grandson named Patrick John McCall who fits the timeline of the confirmed birth of this Patrick Jr. in 1857 and lives with his grandparents in both 1861 and 1871. Of further interest, the witnesses at Patrick Jr.'s baptism are a William Murphy and what looks like a Sarah Currie.

Putting this all together, the most likely answer to my McCall problem is that Patrick Sr. had a child with Judith Currie in 1857 and then went into the military, leaving his son with his grandparents to be raised. There are no death records for anyone in this Currie family, so presumably sometime after 1871 the grandparents returned to Ireland. And I have no idea what happened to Judith.

This fits all the facts except one - the listing of "Juda McCaul" as the mother's maiden name on the birth and baptism documents. Juda fits with Judith. I cannot explain the McCaul, but I am tempted to chalk that up to the unknown under the weight of the rest of the evidence,

[loobylooayr]

Hi David,

Interesting find with Patrick McCall at Chelsea Pensioners hospital - how sure are you he is the father of Patrick John McCall?
I contributed to this thread back in 2014 - and I've skimmed back through it to refresh my memory.

I'm sorry to throw a spanner in your works but I don't think your Patrick John McCall is the child with the Curries in 1861 & 71.  There is a Patrick McCall born to Patrick McCall and Margaret Currie at Calton on 3rd May 1856  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQRM-LTT
I think this is the child with the Curries.

I still feel the Patrick McCall married to Mary Hughes at Dixons Square on the 1861 Census is a possible father from Patrick John. I'm not convinced Juda/Judith was married to her child's father.

Looby

[davidlstern]

So much for my theory! Thanks for the extra information - I will go back to the drawing board!