Author Topic: *COMPLETED* Sheila Elizabeth Crissell/Gibson B 26 Jun 1922, D 16 Feb 1995  (Read 12688 times)

Offline Schoch

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*COMPLETED* Sheila Elizabeth Crissell/Gibson B 26 Jun 1922, D 16 Feb 1995
« on: Monday 24 November 14 13:21 GMT (UK) »
 ???
I wonder if anyone can clear up my little mystery.
 Sheila was my mother but I have found 2 birth certificates for her under Crissell and Gibson.  I have the hardcopy of the Crissell one and, other than the fact it does not list a father (still tying to track him down) it also lists Sheila as "lying in hospital bed". I have never seen that particular notation before. Does anyone know what is means?

In addition the birth was registered in Newcastle but her mother's address on the cert. was given as Kelvedon, Essex??
The Gibson name change occurred, I believe, when her mother married a Robert Gibson a years or so later.  This resulted in a handwritten entry in the register at a later date (and the subsequent 2nd Birth cert being issued).


Would this be an "adoption" issue?


Thanks

Richard
Stay in the  Moment

Grainger - Wigton and Newcastle Area
Gibson - Newcastle/Scotland (Roxburgh) Areas
Crisell/Crissell/Chrysel/etc. - Suffolk Area
Schoch - Germany (Öhringen Area)

Offline Tickettyboo

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Re: Sheila Elizabeth Crissell/Gibson B 26 Jun 1922, D 16 Feb 1995
« Reply #1 on: Monday 24 November 14 13:36 GMT (UK) »
???
 it also lists Sheila as "lying in hospital bed". I have never seen that particular notation before. Does anyone know what is means?



Was that in the place of birth column and was there also an address? The term 'lying in hospital' was used for what we would now call a maternity home or hospital.

Boo

Offline groom

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Re: Sheila Elizabeth Crissell/Gibson B 26 Jun 1922, D 16 Feb 1995
« Reply #2 on: Monday 24 November 14 13:39 GMT (UK) »
Could it be that Robert Gibson is her father and that for some reason he couldn't marry her mother when Sheila was born, then, once they were free to marry they wanted Sheila to have his name so they applied to have the certificate changed? It might be worth getting the second certificate to see what that says.
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Offline Schoch

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Re: Sheila Elizabeth Crissell/Gibson B 26 Jun 1922, D 16 Feb 1995
« Reply #3 on: Monday 24 November 14 15:31 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Tickettyboo for the "translation".  The birth was registered 2 days after the birth so yes I guess Sheila was still in the maternity ward.

 Groom, thanks but not sure that is the full explanation.  Sheila's mother gave her occupation as "nurse" in domestic service in Kelvedon Essex. Why was the birth in Newcastle then?  I had thought she might of got pregnant in Essex and was "sent away" to have the baby. Robert Gibson was living in Newcatle ( a sailor by trade).  If she knew him before the birth then his name should have been on the 1st cert.
Anyway I have already ordered a copy of the 2nd cert so I will have to see what that reveals. (be a bit of a downer if there is still no father listed  >:(

Thanks for your help both of you.

Richard
Stay in the  Moment

Grainger - Wigton and Newcastle Area
Gibson - Newcastle/Scotland (Roxburgh) Areas
Crisell/Crissell/Chrysel/etc. - Suffolk Area
Schoch - Germany (Öhringen Area)


Offline SelDen

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Re: Sheila Elizabeth Crissell/Gibson B 26 Jun 1922, D 16 Feb 1995
« Reply #4 on: Monday 24 November 14 15:39 GMT (UK) »
Was the second cert issued 1927 or later?

See http://specialcollections.le.ac.uk/cdm/landingpage/collection/p16445coll4

The Legitimacy Act 1926 legitimised children born out of wedlock, where the parents subsequently married, provided that neither parent was married to someone else at the time the child Was born. Sounds as if this could possibly apply in your situation?

I have a number of examples in my own family, with a small flurry of certs in 1927 as one couple took advantage of the new legislation to legitimise their family. These were poor working people in South Shields and no property would have been involved, but removing the taint of illegitimacy was clearly still a strong imperative for them.

Offline groom

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Re: Sheila Elizabeth Crissell/Gibson B 26 Jun 1922, D 16 Feb 1995
« Reply #5 on: Monday 24 November 14 15:49 GMT (UK) »
I wouldn't be surprised if Robert isn't listed on the second certificate as father as she was given his name, otherwise why bother to change it? You can use any name you like so long as you don't intend to defraud, so she could just have used his name. They obviously wanted to make it formal. Are we talking after 1927 when adoption became formalised?

Quote
   If she knew him before the birth then his name should have been on the 1st cert.             

Not necessarily. As they weren't married,  his name could only be on the certificate if he was there to register the birth with her, or signed to say he agreed. Perhaps he was away at sea and couldn't be reached.

Where was Sheila's mother born - was it Essex or was she just working there and returned home for the birth? It's another of "if only I'd asked earlier" problems isn't it, although perhaps your mother didn't know either.

Keep us informed.
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Offline SelDen

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Re: Sheila Elizabeth Crissell/Gibson B 26 Jun 1922, D 16 Feb 1995
« Reply #6 on: Monday 24 November 14 16:02 GMT (UK) »
FreeBMD actually has 3 entries. One in 1922 under Gibson, one in 1922 under Crisell and one in Mar q 1927 under Gibson with a cross reference to the 1922 Crisell entry.

This looks as if they applied for a third cert almost immediately after the Legitimacy Act was passed in Dec 1926.

Offline Tickettyboo

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Re: Sheila Elizabeth Crissell/Gibson B 26 Jun 1922, D 16 Feb 1995
« Reply #7 on: Monday 24 November 14 16:14 GMT (UK) »
  Sheila's mother gave her occupation as "nurse" in domestic service in Kelvedon Essex. Why was the birth in Newcastle then? 

Many different scenarios could answer that question, unfortunately the one definite answer is 'that was where her mother was at the time' :-)

You'd need to track back and see where the Mum grew up, sideways to see where parents, siblings, grandparents, aunts and uncles etc were at the time. If that points to the Newcastle area then its likely that Mum became pregnant whilst in service and went back to Newcastle to have the baby where she had some family back up to help after the birth. She'd, for instance, need somewhere to go to when she left the hospital, employers in Essex would be unlikely to take her and an illegitimate child back into the household so she'd likely turn to a sympathetic relative.

Do let us know (I get ever so nosey!) if the second birth cert names a father. It 'could' have been the man Mum married a year or so later - if he was a sailor then its not beyond possible that he was docked near where she worked in Essex and that's how they met (or met up again if they both originated in Newcastle). He could have been at sea for some length of time and their marriage couldn't happen till he came back after the baby was born.

Just as an aside, what was on Sheila's marriage cert as her father's name? Was it the man her Mum married? Though that's not 'proof', she may not have known and if someone was your Dad for as long as you can remember, then he's your Dad. The genetics thing doesn't always count as much as the time and care given which makes you a proper parent :-)

Boo

Offline dawnsh

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Re: Sheila Elizabeth Crissell/Gibson B 26 Jun 1922, D 16 Feb 1995
« Reply #8 on: Monday 24 November 14 16:30 GMT (UK) »
Hi Richard

In the first instance did you apply for ther 1922 entry and receive the 1927 entry or did you just apply for the 1927 entry?

What have you applied for most recently, the 1922 or the 1927?

The reason I ask is that all the certs are linked behind the scenes at the GRO when you see an annotation in the index

The 1927 will supercede all other entries.

Unless you ring the GRO and specifically ask for the 1922 cert, you will always get the 1927 version

Dawn

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