1841 & 1851 LOOKUPS PLEASE - BRIDGE (NAME COLLARD)

[jean.rob]

Is anyone able to assist with 1841 and 1851 lookups for the following please

JOHN COLLARD (b c1786) Kingston, Kent
ANN MARIE COLLARD (b c1791) Nottingham
LUCY J COLLARD (b c1832) Petham, Kent

Living in Stone Street, Upper Hardres, Chartham, Bridge in 1861

Trying to trace any other family members if possible plus addresses.

Many thanks.

JEAN

[carol_cholsey]

Hi Jean,
Here's the family in 1841
ref HO107 467-05 folio 10: Stone Street, Upper Hardres
Ann Marie Collard age 50
William do age 25 ag lab
John do age 29 ag lab
Ann do age 20 F serv
Martha (unclear) do age 15
Lucy do age 9
Emma do age 6
?? (female) do age 2
all born in county
xx Carol.

[carol_cholsey]

and in 1851:
ref HO107 1623 folio 86: Stone Street, Upper Hardres
John Collard head mar age 64 ag lab born Kingstone
Ann Maria do wife mar age 60 born Nottingham
William do son un age 37 dealer in wood born Stelling
John do son un age 30 grocer born Petham
ref HO107 1623 folio 94: Great Cotes Farm, Lower Hardres
Lucy J Collard serv un age 19 house servant born Petham (in the employ of John Boulding - farmer)
Couldn't see any other Collards in the area.
xx Carol

[jean.rob]

Thank you so much Carol - hopefully this may put another piece to the puzzle.
I am trying to find an ELIZABETH COLLARD who I believe may be another daughter, who I had hoped would be amongst this family in 1841.  So far cannot trace her before her marriage in 1846.
Birthplace is shown in later censuses as either Petham or Stelling Minnis.
I have her on the 1851, 61, 71, 81 etc but it is in 1841 I cannot trace her.
If anyone can assist further I would be grateful.

JEAN

[Zacktyr]

Hello Jean,

I am a COLLARD descendant and have a great deal of information concerning all of the various COLLARD lines in Kent.

If you could provide me with a little more specific information about your Elizabeth and how you connected her to the family of John and Ann Maria COLLARD, I just may be able to help you out enormously.

Regards,
Susan

[jean.rob]

Hi Susan

Thank you for your message.
I do so hope you may be able to help.

The Elizabeth Collard in my tree was born in Petham, Kent c1816 (is sometimes also shown as being born in Stelling Minnis in some censuses).
She married Thomas Pay 17.9.1846 in Worth, Kent. 
Her father's name on Marriage Cert is John Collard, Labourer.
She already had a daughter Emma b. c1838/9 in Bridge, Kent.
1851 census shows Emma Collard living with Thomas and Elizabeth.
1861 Emma is no longer living with them, but she is known to have had a daughter, Fanny, born in Eastry Workhouse in 1859.
Emma may have used the name "Pay" as well as Collard.  Emma is shown as Pay on Fanny's Birth Cert as is Fanny, but Fanny also used both surnames during her life.
I traced one Emma Collard in 1861 living in Margate, and this follows through 1871 and 1881 censuses.  Married Robert Edward Brockman and lived in Northern Bell Inn, Margate.  Believe this to be the correct Emma.

I have only assumed John and Ann Maria Collard to be connected as in 1861 census this John Collard would have been around the right age.  My assumption may not be correct.

Any help you may be able to give on my Elizabeth and Emma Collard would be much appreciated.

Jean

[Zacktyr]

Hi Jean,

I have gone through quite a bit of my Collard information - with still more to go.  Nothing definitive has turned up, yet.
But,.........would your Elizabeth Collard, by any chance, have used another name during her lifetime?

The reason I ask is that in a branch line of my own Collards is a Frances who was christened 22 December 1816 at Petham.  Her father was John Collard, the brother of my Elizabeth.  John's wife was Mary (possibly Mary Spillet of Chartham).  There were 9 other children of this couple all christened at Petham between 1798 and 1816.  Next youngest to Frances (1816) was her sister Hester christened 7 August 1814. 

I have not been able to track this family - but I haven't worked too hard at it either, as of yet - they are on my 'to do' list.

There is also a Collard family based in Alkham that spread its members around through Bridge, Barham, Stelling, and that general area of Kent, for which I do have more information.  That is the information that I have yet to sift through.  There is a possibility that the Ambrose from this Alkham group migrated into Faversham where my Elizabeth was christened and it may well be that your elusive lady and mine are from the same main stock.

Leave this little puzzle with me 'til the weekend and I shall write with my updates on Sunday evening.

Regards,
Susan

[Zacktyr]

Hi Jean,

I've sent a PM to you with the transcript of a Will that I had buried in my COLLARD file.  At first, I had thought that it belonged to my COLLARD group at Petham, but there are too many inconsistences. 

The Will is of John Collard who lived in Petham as of 1819 when he drew his Will.  He died during 1820 leaving behind wife, Elizabeth and children:  John, Elizabeth, Ann, William Catharine and Richard.

The son, Richard, was christened at Waltham during 1804 but I have not found the christenings for the other children.

The family represented here are not:

1.  the John and Ann Maria family at Upper Hardres, although John may be the son of this John, but that is pure conjecture until proof can be found;

2.  the John Collard who married Elizabeth Ovenden as that John was still living in 1857;  and

3.  the John Collard at Petham who is connected with my bunch - the children's names are not quite right - my group has a Stephen and a James were still living in 1851 and my group never had an Ann or Catharine.

There is definitely a problem with too many COLLARD families being headed by John and by John and Elizabeth and I think caution will be necessary to get them all sorted.  But, I do think that this Will relates to your family - the timing is right, the place is right and they even have a daughter named Elizabeth, which among the vast majority of COLLARD families in Kent in somewhat unusual.

I hope this helps, even if just a little.
Best wishes,
Susan