Marion Woodburn - b. Ayr, Scotland, possibly 1819

[loobylooayr]

Now - part 2   

I strongly suspect - although I could be totally wrong    - that Robert Woodburn and John Woodburn living at Cottage Inn near Bonnilhill on the 1841 Census are brothers.

This could well be John's birth at Craigie on 28 Aug 1796 son of an Alexander Woodburn , annoyingly no mother's name !  https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XY4Z-HZ6  - this would match with John age 54 born Craigie on the 1851 Census.

I've found three births which also interest -
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYZB-1HZ    James Woodburn to Alexander Woodburn & Jean Porter christened April 1790 at Galston.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYSY-PP2   - William Woodborn to Alexander Woodburn & Jean Porter birth 24 Sep 1798 christening 30 Sep 1798  at Symington , Ayrshire (not far from Craigie & Kilmarnock)


And lastly -  https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYZB-1HN    a birth of a James Woodburn 4 Dec 1799 , christened 9 Dec 1799 to John Woodburn and Jean Sillars at Galston.
This must be a brother to Archibald Woodburn , the soldier on the grave belonging to those other Woodburns   .

Need to have my dinner now.  Just as well I'm housebound this last couple of days due to our freezing conditions. Snow still lying and it's no pleasure to drive. Plenty research time.
Looby

[Joyful]

I think that Robert and John Woodburn are brothers too, but even if they are
it doesn't advance us much further really

Off now to reread through the thread as I think I've lost sight of the original query

Joy

[loobylooayr]

Hi Joyful,

We are going off on tangents here aren't we.
Just a refresher - we are trying to find the parentage of Marion Woodburn.
She marries Thomas McCulloch in Kilmarnock in 1845 , the OPR reads that she is from near Bonnihill.

John Woodburn married to Lilias McSkimming is living in 1841 near Bonnihill.
I have suspected this is Marion's father although Polly is not so sure.
Marion is working for 2 Woodburn ladies in Grange Street in 1841 - she could be distantly related to them, we don't know.

Finding Robert Woodburn marrying same year as John at Kilmaurs and having a daughter Mary Ann in West Kilbride makes me think they could be related .
I am wondering if they are sons of Alexander Woodburn and Jean Porter.   It would be great if something we find links Marion to these people but I'm not hopeful.
Looby

[loobylooayr]

Hello again Polly -
Well my curiosity got the better of me and I decided to find the death of John Woodburn married to Lilias McSkimming and living at Cottage Inn near Bonnihill in 1841.
I had hoped that he would be recorded as both husband of Mary Brown and Lily/Lilias McSkimming.....but he's not 

John Woodburn died in Murkirk , Ayrshire ( where the family appear to have moved during 1850s) on 23 April 1875. He was 78 years old, married to Lilias McSkimming, address Railway Terrace, Murkirk occupation Hammerman died of General Debility . And his parents were Alexander Woodburn and Jane Porter (both deceased) , the informant was his son John Woodburn.
A Hammerman was a smith/metal worker according to http://www.scotsfamily.com/occupations.htm

It's disappointing that Mary Brown does not get a mention on this cert , so either :
1.   John was not the John who married Mary Brown at Kilmaurs and was only married to Lilias.
or
2. After a gap of 50 years, John Woodburn jnr didn't know/ forgot/ didn't think it worth mentioning that his father had been married before. Maybe he'd forgotten/never knew the name.

I have found a brother of John's ....Alexander.
He died in 1906 in Monkton & Prestwick aged 94 years - Cause senile decay- parents Alexander Woodburn & Jean Porter. He is married to Elspeth Hyslop (this is incorrect unless he has a second wife - his wife is Elizabeth Ramsay) and the informant is his daughter Jane Walker. Elspeth is a variant of Elizabeth. Don't know where the Hyslop comes from  .

Alexander and his wife and family are living in Kilmaurs Parish at Crosshouse at the time of 1841 Census.

Still no definite link to Marion .
Looby

[IanB]

I am visiting my brother and using his computer, so I don't have access to any of my written files.

I do think that you have established some link with "Willie" in that the daughter of David, son of "Jessie" was given Willie as a second name. This David I think was also the father of "visitor" John.

But, Polly, I think it may be time for you to try recap some of this information - perhaps making groups of:  still possible leads ; and known facts (few, unfortunately), and discarding false leads.

I still wonder whether there might be any old Australian or N.Z. sources that you could tap into? Resources created after mandatory civil registration I mean. Marion lived to a fair age and there may have been events or applications that required, for example, her exact place of birth, or a parent's name.

 During the time of your search, Woodburns were numerous in the area, although I do not think it was a common name in Scotland. Consequently, there was frequently a duplication of names because of the Scottish naming pattern. For example, naming the first son after his grandfather resulted in same-name cousins. Our family had several Johns, Williams, and Alexanders of similar age, making it difficult to sort them out. But I think you might only need one established fact to get you on track.

Keep at it!

Ian

[loobylooayr]

Hi Polly,
I think Ian is right.
You need to look at what  info you have and check out any other avenue in Aus and NZ.

You know Marion married Thomas McCulloch 16th Dec 1845 at Kilmarnock. He was from Morton Place , Marion was from near Bonnihill.
You know they sailed on the Mahomed Shah in 1848 to Australia. Thomas aged 28 a labourer,
Mary Anne age 27, Mary aged 5 - native place Kilmarnock Ayrshire. (year of birth for Marion 1820/1821
You know that she remarried and had children Mary and Thomas McCulloch / James , Andrew, John Woodburn. Margaret Esther, George Irving and Martha McEwin.
She died Nov 1908 and her age was 92years (year of birth 1815/1816) and her father was a weaver.
Her headstone has her age as 90. (year of birth 1817/1818)

Actually looking back on the posts and typing this out reminded me that on the ship's list Marion is recorded as Mary Anne. Ian had also prompted us to consider that spelling . And we had found Robert Woodburn and Jean Gibson's daughter Mary Ann also born at West Kilbride  -  https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTK5-M9B    - think we need to consider this lady too!

Not gave up yet Polly  just having a rethink ........

Looby

[loobylooayr]

A few quick question Polly,

When did Thomas McCulloch die? Was baby son Thomas born before or after his death?
When did Marion remarry? No details regarding her age/parentage on that cert?


Thanks,
Looby 

[Joyful]

Hi Polly, Looby & Ian
I think that if the Aus and Nz searches don't turn up any new information, then on a
balance of probabilities John Woodburn and Mary Brown are Marion's parents

Consider...Your ancestor consistently gives her name as Marion
            ... The only Marion ( I can find ) is born to John Woodburn and Mary Brown
            ... Ancestor marries as 'Marion'
I know that the passenger list says Mary Ann but that is easily explained as the clerk
wrote what he heard and could very well have had difficulty with a Scottish accent.

It may be that Robert Woodburn and John are brothers but even if they are it doesn't
advance your quest any further. I'm equally sure that there is a relationship between the
various 'Woodburns' but that too, would appear to be an interesting sidestep only.

Having said all that some other miraculous piece of information may yet appear Just moi opinion.
Onward...

Joy

[pollyhow]

Hi All

Sorry, I have been away from the house a lot of the time in the last two days and have only just got back to my computer, so I’m surprised to find you have been writing and doing such good research.

It is late now here – after midnight – so I think I had better get some sleep before re-reading what you wrote. But I will quickly make a few observations now and then write back again tomorrow.

Regarding your last posting Joy, I agree with what you said about Marion’s name on the passenger list. I have thought exactly the same thing. The person writing the name down may not have been too familiar with the Scottish accent – Marion sounds a bit like MaryAnn when pronounced. Apparently there were often discrepancies in the recording of passenger details.

Looby, Thomas McCulloch died in Melbourne in August 1848. He was 29. I have searched but can’t find a birth record for son Thomas. He wasn’t on the passenger list and it was only six weeks after the family arrived in Australia that Thomas (senior) was drowned, so I presume that Thomas junior was born after his father’s death. Thomas (junior) died in August 1912 and his death registration shows him to be 62 years old. My guess is that he was born in 1849.

Marion’s second marriage to Andrew McEwin was on 25 June 1850 in Geelong, Victoria. The image I have is from a marriage register and has no family background information – it just shows that they were joined in wedlock and were members of the Presbyterian Church.

Now finally before I go to bed (it is now after 1.00am) I wanted to say that a couple of days ago I looked for a birth possibility for Robert Woodburn. I found two records in FamilySearch – one birth/baptism was in 1804 and the other in 1796 (both in Loudoun parish). I cancelled out the 1804 birth because this Robert would only have been 14 in 1818 when the marriage took place   so I aimed for the 1796 birth as being the one I was looking for. It showed:

Name:   Robert Woodburn
Gender:   Male
Christening Date:   04 Dec 1796
Christening Place:   Loudoun, Ayr, Scotland
Birth Date:   28 Nov 1796
Father's Name:   Alexander Woodburn
Mother's Name:   Mary Croser

I then looked in ScotlandsPeople for the children of Alexander Woodburn & Mary Crozier/Croser:

31/10/1784   Woodburn   James   Alexander Woodburn/Mary Crozier   Loudoun/Ayr
13/08/1786   Woodburn   William   Alexander Woodburn/Mary Crozier   Loudoun/Ayr
29/03/1789   Woodburn   Robert   Alexander Woodburn/Mary Crozier   Loudoun/Ayr
15/05/1791   Woodburn   Janet    Alexander Woodburn/Mary Crozier   Loudoun/Ayr
04/12/1796   Woodburn   Robert   Alexander Woodburn/Mary Croser   Loudoun/Ayr
17/02/1799   Woodburn   Helen   Alexander Woodburn/Mary Croizer   Loudoun/Ayr

I’m not sure, but you may already have seen this information. But thought I would throw it in.

I’ll write back again tomorrow after I have absorbed your information.

Thanks again for all your efforts.

Polly

PS: Did I mention before that I found a birth possibility for John Woodburn who married Mary Brown in 1818 Anyway, I'll put it here again, plus his siblings:

28/09/1783   Woodburn   John       James Woodburn/Margaret Brown      Loudoun   /Ayr
18/12/1785   Woodburn   James   James Woodburn/Margaret Brown    Loudoun   /Ayr
20/01/1788   Woodburn   Andrew   James Woodburn/Margaret Brown    Loudoun   /Ayr
26/02/1792   Woodburn   Janet       James Woodburn/Margaret Brown      Loudoun    /Ayr
07/08/1796   Woodburn   John     James Woodburn/Margaret Brown       Loudoun    /Ayr

Also a birth possibility for the father James Woodburn:

23/03/1760   Woodburn   James   John Woodburn/Janet Borland   Loudoun   /Ayr

That Borland name has reappeared again

This time I really have to go.