LONGTON FENTON GOODWINS

[..claire..]

Hi

Still non the wiser.....yet 

On a list of Victorian Occupations this is what it says for an agent, accountant and bookkeeper

Agent ~ ' One who acts or transacts business for another '

Accountant ~ ' A person involved in maintenance and auditing of accounts and financial matters '

Book-keeper ~ ' Someone who looked after the accounts for businesses '

I think that the colliery agent is the accountant/ bookmaker in your family, here is his family tree as I see it

Thomas Goodwin born 1785 marries Lucy Lester ( a widow, formally married to Robert Hawley)

Their son THOMAS born 1811 marries Elizabeth BARKER  on 1st November 1836 St Mary's Bucknall, Staffs

Thomas GOODWIN (born 1811)  and Elizabeth BARKER have the following children

Joseph Barker Goodwin bapt. 7 May 1837
John Goodwin bapt. 14 Aug 1839
Elizabeth bn. c1844
Emma bn 1846
THOMAS BARKER GOODWIN born July 1848 died 1912
Mary Ann bn 1850

The questions you ask ~

' the death of the 1785 Thomas Goodwin ' ~ this is the death you have  in 1865 ~ probate record gives date of death and names his sons ~ Thomas and Charles

' Thomas the accountant was indeed born in 1848 ' ~ NO , Thomas the accountant/book-keeper/Agent  was born 1811 and died 24 March 1874.

       ********************************************************************

   Thomas Goodwin  ~ ~ ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Lucy Lester
      (1785 ? - 1865)                                          :                                              (1780-1851)
                 ~                   
   Thomas Goodwin ~ Elizabeth Barker                                                          Charles Goodwin
    (1811-1874)                                                                                               (1815-1885) 
                               ~
Joseph Barker Goodwin 1837-1884
THOMAS BARKER GOODWIN 1848 -1912


Does this make sense ?

claire
                           
             

[frirish]

It did occur to me the colliery agent might have been the accountant-but I wondered why he would be in the coal business when his father was a china manufacturer...
Now that sort of agent would travel be a part of his job description do you think...

It all makes sense now! Thank you so much ! 
Thomas and Liz Barker also had Thomas barker born in 1842 but he died the same year.
When the Thomas in 1848 was born he did not have the name Barker attached at least not in the GRO.  Where did you find the Barker listed.. They also had a Charles Barker in 1852. ( Don`t you find it odd John born in Trentham is not a Barker...)

I need to know who Thomas Barker born in 1848 married. And unfortunately there are too many choices. I was told it was in 1865 to an Elizabeth Barker but I am doubtful now! His occupation is key.

Once I have determined that I will put a spanner in the works! Oh Goody! 
 

[BumbleB]

From parish records - burial entries, via FindMyPast:

St John, Lane End, Longton = Thomas Goodwin of Longton, buried 29 March 1874 aged 62.  From your will reference then this must be Thomas Goodwin, Book-keeper.

St Paul, Edensor = Thomas Goodwin of Clayton Street, buried 17 January 1865 aged 73.  From your will reference then this must be Thomas Goodwin, late China Manufacturer.

[frirish]

Ahhh Spotted another wrong turn! Thomas who was born in 1848 did not die in 1874 he WAS 74 when he died! 

[frirish]

HI Bumblebee! Can you believe I am still on this ancestor!! 

Ok, you are correct so that means Thomas the china man was actually born in 1792 not 1785 as I had previously thought. And that still works out- he would have been 19 when he married Lucy. But that makes Lucy 12 years older than he! That`s quite a difference!
Thanks for your help as always Bumblebee! Very much appreciated!
Nathalie

[..claire..]

Hi

There is a detailed tree on Anc* that has Thomas B Goodwin born 1848 marries a Mary Ann Feeney. Wedding cert. has him without the name Barker on it. His occupation is a CLERK, and the same for his father.

claire

[..claire..]

Marriage 7 August 1881, Stone.

Thomas and Mary Ann look to have three children

Harry Finney Goodwin
Thomas B F Goodwin
Arthur J Goodwin

claire

[BumbleB]

You have to remember that the age at death is the age given by the informant - NOT the person who died!!!!! 

[frirish]

Ok Claire you are my heroine!!!!!!
I am so relieved and let me tell you why.
My great grandmother Beatrice Ellen Goodwin`s father was Thomas Goodwin accountant clerk. It was starting to look like it was the older Thomas who was her father!!! It is interesting to note that Thomas snr made his will in june of 1864, the very time my gg Ellen was born.
Thomas Jr and Ellen`s mother ELLEN Hopcroft did not manage to make it down the aisle! Ellen Hopcroft married someone else, as did Thomas junior.

Ellen Hopcroft`s married name was Rogers and that is the name she used on Ellen`s birth registration for herself but Ellen`s last name was GOODWIN in 1864. ( She married John Rogers in 1863 but the timing clearly is off for Ellen to be Mr. Rogers`He did adopt her as she turns up on the 1881 census as his daughter. 

BUT here is were it gets odd.
on the 1871 census, she Beatrice ELLEN Rogers is found in Macclesfield with Ellen`s mom Ann Hopcroft- her granny.
With her is Alice Rogers born in 1869. (She was also registered as a GOODWIN as Ellen had been! Both with Rogers as the mother.)
So ELLEN HOPCROFT had both Beatrice Ellen jr and Alice out of wedlock with a GOODWIN, hopefully Thomas both times! But how odd is that...  And 5 years apart! Could they not stay away from each other...
Now the fact that in 1871 the girls have both been shipped out of town to their grandmother`s is telling. (of note Granny is from OXON which explained why Ellen as an adult did not know where she was actually born when she named Hanley OXON on a census.)
Bea Ellen returns to her mom and John Roger`s in 1881 but Alice is not with them. So I have to find her. 
So for the last eight years I have been searching for an Ellen Goodwin, with a Thomas for a father when she was as a child Beatrice Rogers. And solved the mystery of which ancestor had two children out of wedlock.
Now both girls were born in Wolverhampton (perhaps this was done on purpose as to get away form her home town)  so how did Ellen Hopcraft and Thomas Goodwin cross paths... Thomas owned the Crown and Anchor Hotel in Longton and Mr. Rogers was a victualler. So either Thomas or Ellen did some traveling!
Any other possible scenarios...something more romantic perhaps...