COMPLETED Rose Ellen Sim(m)ons Oxford

[seahall]

Hi.

I wondered if anyone could help with the above person.

She is on the 1891 upwards censuses as being born in Oxford in 1870-71.

1901 Islington she with a niece Elizabeth (Ellen) Simmons who was born in 1891
Oxford R.D. and noted as Rose Helen Wilder married yet no marriage can be found.
RG13; Piece: 162; Folio: 53; Page: 27

1891 St. Pancras she is noted as Rosie Wilder married aged 21.
RG12; Piece: 123; Folio: 78; Page: 26

Therefore can any one see here on the 1881 or know of her parentage and spouse.

T.I.A.

Sandy

[Annette7]

With all due respect, how do you know her maiden name was Simmons?

Annette

[seahall]

I quite agree Annette.

Someone noted as below.

Hi, would anyone have time to look for a wedding for Rose Helen Simmons please? I have a Rose Helen Wilder on 1911 census stating she's married but I can't find a wedding? Thank you

Obviously it may not have been that R E Simmons is her not her maiden name as I can not see a possible birth for her.

It could be a sibling that married a Simmons and therefore barking up the wrong tree entirely.

Especially as in the Freebmd there is no marriage in England etc noted for a Wilder marrying a Simmons.

Therefore maybe we could ask someone if they could find the niece's lineage which would possibly lead to other links.

Sandy

[ribbo39]

Hi Sandy,

Do you have access to Anc..y as there is a 1911 census entry thus;
Rose Helen Wilder, head, aged 40, marr,  children - none,  living on Private Means,  born Oxford

also a neice Violet Maud Simmons aged 11
Cornwall Mansions, St.Marylebone, London

RG14; peice, 576

Alan

[lizdb]

Possible for 1901
55 Pooles Park
Islington
Thomas Simmonds 33  something maker
Louisa 31
Thomas 12
Daisy 11
Clarence 9
Stanley 6
Ethel 4
Violet 1    all bn Islington

IF that is the right Violet, then it is not looking as if she is a sister to the other niece,  Elizabeth Ellen, so maybe a cousin.

[lizdb]

Its probably just me, but I cant seem to find the 1901 you refer to, with the neice Ellen.
HAve you got a ref?

[Annette7]

Aside from the fact that I feel that Rose Ellen/Helen was not actually married to a Mr. Wilder I have identified that the Mr. Wilder here is a Frank Wilder.

Rose is a visitor at a lodging house in 1891 shown as married.   Now to electoral rolls:

Rose Helen Wilder   1894   21 Lamble Street, St. Pancras (only her listed)

In 1901 she is living at 106 Lady Margaret Road, Islington and electoral rolls show a Frank Wilder at this address 1899 to 1903.

From 1906 until 1921 Rose Helen Wilder shown as living at 9J Cornwall Mansions, St. Marylebone BUT she also appears for the first time in 1921 at 72 Essendine Road, Paddington so presume the move took place around then and she's listed under both addresses.

72 Essendine Road - 1922 to 1929

1922 Rose shown with a John Wilder (?)
1923-to 1928 with Frank Wilder
1929 Frank there alone.

After that can see no trace of this Frank in London (there are some entries but they relate to another Frank.

No trace of Rose Ellen/Helen Wilder after 1928.
No trace of 'husband' Frank Wilder after 1929.

The census tells us that Rose had 2 nieces: Elizabeth Ellen Simmons b.Sept.qtr.1891 Oxford and Violet Maud Simmons b.Sept.qtr.1900 Pancras.  Both births clearly recorded but aside from that cannot establish where Elizabeth was in 1911 and where Violet was in 1901!!  The 3 possible Violet's in 1901 were not her - have established this by comparing births and 1901/1911 census.

Neither of the 2 girls seems to have been baptised so the only way of establishing who they were is by buying a birth certificate to establish parents.  No easy way out of this one.

Unless Rose and Frank died around 1928/1929, moved out of London or left the country altogether I just don't know what happened to them and indeed who exactly they were.

Annette

PS - lizdb, Violet's not the one born Islington dau. of Thomas and Louisa - she was with her mother in 1911 and she was either a plain Violet or Elsie Violet.

[lizdb]

PS - lizdb, Violet's not the one born Islington dau. of Thomas and Louisa - she was with her mother in 1911 and she was either a plain Violet or Elsie Violet.

OK, that's ruled that out then. I wasn't convinced - hence the big IF!

The strange thing with this is that there is a Rose Ellen Wilder around, a single lady, born as such. I keep coming up with her!

I also agree she was never married to Mr W. She says married by 1891, but that's not the number of years married on a later census!

[seahall]

Hi.

I am just going to recap the info that has kindly been found and can add some of my own since I have been looking this morning.

Gratefully appreciated.

Sandy