Hartshorn family

[Lostris]

Can't find any baptism for another William Hartshorn in Meole Brace up until 1845.

Dont forget he (according to the Census) was born in Brum .....

I suspect the only way - normally - to get a handle on him, would be to get his Birth Cert .... but cant see a suitable entry in the Index.

So, it would really help if you could photograph & upload Williams Marriage Cert (to Sarah)

[Lostris]

Here is the birth certificate of Eliza - the only positive facts I have. She then "disappears" until 1887 when she gives birth to my Grandfather at Berrington Workhouse.
I am trying to find evidence which confirms the line of her father and mother and any siblings.
David

well, so far (altho you dont seem to acknowledge many postings), we have established that William Hartshorn(e) is the Grandson of an Elijah Hartshorn(e) & seems to spend his census life in the Meol Brace, HookaGate area ...

By bringing this Eliza into the debate are you asking for her whereabouts in the 1871 & 1881 census ?

It would really help if you could photograph & upload Williams Marriage Cert (to Sarah)

[Lostris]

An Eliza is not with William & Sarah in 1871, nor in 1881 (when they are transcribed as Harkhorn)

The oldest child remains the son Elijah - c1866

Strange that there's no Birth Index entry for him .... and also note how close in age he is to the lass Eliza, for whom you showed the Birth Cert .... one almost wonders if theres a huge mistake going on ...

Tell me more about the 1887 Birth to Eliza in the Workhouse - can you name the child ?

[DJH]

I cannot read any of the marriage cert. now as it is a very old copy and has deteriorated by not being looked after very well in the meantime(!)
Is William the grandson of Elijah? Where is this documented?
I think there may be a mistake or even a direct lie concerning Eliza's gender!
Eliza turns up as a laundry maid living in St Mary's Shrewsbury having given birth to my Grandfather at the Atcham Union Workhouse, Berrington on 27th February 1887. No father was givenbut we have since found that it was a boy called William Kennedy who lived in Gateshead and was a market Gardener. Grandfather was christened at St Mary's Church, Shrewsbury and the baptysmal record added an 'e' to his surname.
I originally dismissed William and Sarah Ann as having made a mistake in the sex and name of their child as Elijah appears later and Eliza doesn't. But, the more I look at it I feel that the original birth certificate was correct after all and things went wrong later! This is what I am trying to work out.

[Lostris]

Eliza turns up as a laundry maid living in St Mary's Shrewsbury having given birth to my Grandfather at the Atcham Union Workhouse, Berrington on 27th February 1887

Well, theres no sign of her even with broad search parameters in 1871 & 1881 - so how do you know that the lass 'Eliza' in Shrewsbury is 'yours' - presumably from the 1891 census?

Also where is your Grandfather (John William ?) in 1891 census ?

Is William the grandson of Elijah? Where is this documented?

Just read thru the thread in its entirety, you'll see he is defined specifically as Grandson in 1851 (I think, w/o trawling back myself) - and on every census he is born in Brum ... (also his Grandmother Elizabeth is living with him in 1871, and she can be seen to be Elijah's wife in earlier census ...)

I cannot read any of the marriage cert. now as it is a very old copy and has deteriorated by not being looked after very well in the meantime(!)

Still worth a try - just zoom in on the relevant part with 'Fathers name' and some techniques are available to enhance things - as long as its in basic focus.

[DJH]

Eliza is named on the birth cert. of my Grandfather John William Hartshorn. Also the baptismal record at St Mary's Shrewsbury. This was 1887.
In the 1891 Census (Oh, my Great Grandmothers deceits!) Eliza and John William turn up in Newcastle upon Tyne as the "wife" of Ezekial Hutchinson, a barman. She says she was born in Shrewsbury and John William in Wellington. I now believe these to be figments of her wild imagination and possibly an attempt to separate herself from the Workhouse.
As for the marriage, I am working from someone elses transcription of the cert. a long time ago. I certainly can't make out any words now.
I can trace Eliza through to her death in 1911 at the age of 43 (although I think this may need a large pinch of salt.

[Lostris]

think I see John William in 1911 - stating born Bridgnorth - a Compositer

Interesting stuff  .... my money is on Eliza NOT being a daur of William & Sarah tho ...... apart from that Birth Index entry in 1865, she doesnt figure in BMDs or the census*, so, as you say only JW's birth Cert Id's her as Eliza Hartshorn(e) - and that wont show her age .....

The tangled webs ......


*Update, may have found her as an actual Hartshorn in 1901, Ashby de la Zouch - Leics. Says born c1870, Shrewbury - a Boarder with the Ward Family - occupation - Laundress.

No sign of young JW tho .....

[DJH]

I think that would be him. He trained as a printer in the Industrial School, Newcastle upon Tyne. (Don't ask me!)
Working through the records over the years I have come back to this Eliza being the 'one'..........but I can't prove it. I was hoping to find Williams siblings and children to see if they crop up anywhere else that Eliza turned up.

[Lostris]

I see in 1901 in the Jubilee Road, Newcastle on Tyne, Industrial School his PoB is Chatham Kent !

also, I mentioned earlier that Eliza had showed up in 1901 (you may have missed the update to my posting) - may have found her as an actual Hartshorn in 1901, Ashby de la Zouch - Leics. Says born c1870, Shrewsbury - a Boarder with the Ward Family - occupation - Laundress.