Author Topic: Trying to identify a town  (Read 10716 times)

Offline groom

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,144
  • Me aged 3. Tidied up thanks to Wiggy.
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to identify a town
« Reply #27 on: Tuesday 28 April 15 20:24 BST (UK) »
Quote
Thank you both for looking, I shall have to see if I can find some other relevant clues.
Opposite the Five Bells is Mr Dunn the shoemaker.

I wonder if this is the clue we should be looking for now - Mr Dunn the shoemaker?
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online ShaunJ

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 24,129
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to identify a town
« Reply #28 on: Tuesday 28 April 15 23:05 BST (UK) »
Quote
Mr Dunn the shoemaker?

There was an Edward Dunn, cordwainer, in Leicester Street in 1776

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/11680/page/6

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/11678/page/8
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online ShaunJ

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 24,129
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to identify a town
« Reply #29 on: Wednesday 29 April 15 06:31 BST (UK) »
Just been checking out the London geography.

Most of Swallow Street disappeared to make way for the much wider Regent Street circa 1814-1825. Much of present day Regent Street follows its line.

Leicester Street was a short street which intersected with Swallow Street at number 140 on the western side and number 31 on the eastern side. It ran between Heddon Street and Warwick Street.

On modern maps, the western stretch of Leicester Street is now part of Heddon Street, and the eastern stretch is Regent Place.

UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online ShaunJ

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 24,129
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to identify a town
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday 29 April 15 06:36 BST (UK) »
If we have the right Mr Dunn, this does suggest that some of the diary entries are mid 1770's.
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline LizzieL

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,974
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to identify a town
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday 29 April 15 08:06 BST (UK) »
This is amazing how all this is fitting together.

The diary was written in an almanack or similar published in 1756.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rider's_British_Merlin

http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~simba/ridersalmanac/homepgalmanac.htm

the latter link mentions that the 1758 edition they have contained the accounts of a Warwickshire bailiff. So the book must have been published with a lot of blank pages intended for keeping notes or a diary.

The note on Lester street and swallow street is right at the beginning, the reverse of the pattern inside the front cover can be seen on the left page.

It reads
"Mr John Miller at Mr Dunn's shoemaker opposite the five bells in Lester street in Swallow Street. French cheeses Chesnuts (sic) French pears".
Then a line drawn across.
"Marcket (sic) in Church Street fronting St Ann's church an (or on) Balshop (?). French and Limbourg cheeses"

So I think written by an adult lady keen on French cheese etc. It looks like Mr Miller may have set up a pop up shop at the shoemakers to sell some food items he managed to get from France. So presumably written at a time we weren't at war with France, which does sound somewhat earlier than 1803.

It looks the diary was started by an unknown lady living in London and taken over 20 or 30 years later by a 12 year old girl in rural Sussex. I am not aware of anyone in the generation before Sarah coming from London or spending time there, so a mystery how the book came into her possession.

 
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott

Offline artifis

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 760
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to identify a town
« Reply #32 on: Wednesday 29 April 15 10:44 BST (UK) »
If her uncle was in business as the entries seem to suggest then the link to London might be via the Wey and Arun canal to link with the Thames or coastal shipping via the River Arun which was a tidal navigation at that time as far as Pallingham Quay near Pulborough from Littlehampton.

The works to widening/deepening the Arun northwards from Pallingham started soon after 1813 and went near Billingshurst at Newbridge which would possibly tie in with his visits to Pulborough and Binningshurst.

There was also a Wharf at Bury near the church and a facility for the repair of river barges though this may have come into being after Sarah lived in the area. 

Amazing story - so far!

Offline artifis

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 760
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to identify a town
« Reply #33 on: Wednesday 29 April 15 10:50 BST (UK) »
If you want to investigate the water trading connection further there's an excellent book by P.A.L. Vine titled 'The Arun Navigation' with lots of photographs etc.  Adds to the info on the web.

Offline LizzieL

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,974
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to identify a town
« Reply #34 on: Wednesday 29 April 15 11:03 BST (UK) »
I think the diary had two owners, a lady fond of French food who lived in or visited London around  1770 (as ShaunJ suggested) and Sarah who kept the diary in Bury in the early 1800's.
One theory is that the book originally belonged to the lady of "the big house" in or near Bury, who may have overwintered at the family's house in London. Chestnuts are mentioned which usually come around Christmas.   
An annual publication like this almanac has little use the following year so the family would probably throw it out or maybe it was given to the local school. I expect many village schools got donations of unwanted books by the local gentry.
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott

Offline LizzieL

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,974
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to identify a town
« Reply #35 on: Wednesday 29 April 15 11:11 BST (UK) »
I found out a bit more about Sarah. She and Robert Humphrey had 6 children, but she died in 1825. Robert was a widower on 1851 and 1861 censuses, no sign of him remarrying. It looks as if he was parish clerk in 1867 (Kelly's directory). He died in Q4 1870.

There are some lists of quantities of flour and bran in a section headed Bury Mill in the diary. So maybe uncle was in that business.
Taking a time to sort it out, entries a bit jumbled.
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott